Okay, I'm Hooked

[drtomc]

Hi All,

I've been getting my stuff together to make the switch from goobrau to BIAB+NoChill.

If I'm going to NoChill, then I need a cube right? Well I have a couple of 20s and a 25 which I use for secondary (well, and the 25 serves as an emergency primary for smaller batches), but since my pot is only 20L, they'll be too big, so I figured I need a smaller one, say, 17L. Well, I could spend $5-$10 and get an empty one, or I could spend $50 and get one from G&G full of nice fresh wort.

So you can guess which I did.

I just made up the #2 wort with some crystal & EKG with a wyeast 1028. And man! My socks are blown off!

Normally I taste the sample for the hydro - a sip or two and toss the rest. I drank all of this - even unfermented. Wow. I see now what the whole grain thing is about.

Quick! I hope the 1028 ferments fast enough that I can rack next week sometime, and try my first BIAB next Saturday!

And I'd better stop before I use too many exclamation marks!

T!

 

[stowaway]

Hi All,

I've been getting my stuff together to make the switch from goobrau to BIAB+NoChill.

If I'm going to NoChill, then I need a cube right? Well I have a couple of 20s and a 25 which I use for secondary (well, and the 25 serves as an emergency primary for smaller batches), but since my pot is only 20L, they'll be too big, so I figured I need a smaller one, say, 17L. Well, I could spend $5-$10 and get an empty one, or I could spend $50 and get one from G&G full of nice fresh wort.

So you can guess which I did.

I just made up the #2 wort with some crystal & EKG with a wyeast 1028. And man! My socks are blown off!

Normally I taste the sample for the hydro - a sip or two and toss the rest. I drank all of this - even unfermented. Wow. I see now what the whole grain thing is about.

Quick! I hope the 1028 ferments fast enough that I can rack next week sometime, and try my first BIAB next Saturday!

And I'd better stop before I use too many exclamation marks!

T!

the traditionalists wouldnt like this.

but i no chill in my kettle.

works fine.

 

[drtomc]

the traditionalists wouldnt like this.

but i no chill in my kettle.

works fine.

Don't tell me that! You're removing my excuse for buying the fresh wort kit.

T.

 

[browndog]

You can simplify it even more by just no-chilling straight to your fermenter, cool overnight, then pitch the next day. Too easy.

cheers

Browndog

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Hate to be a pedant about it - but you have brewed what? 4 AG batches Stow?? and struggled to call your first two drinkable for some period... it could just be that whether its "fine" or not might be a little too early to call in your case.

Yeah, people do No-Chill in the kettle and they get away with it "fine". It all depends whether you want to aim for the pin right at the edge of the green, near the giant sandtrap... or play percentage golf and whack it in the middle of the smooth stuff with a nice safe two putts to finish. Some people might say that by choosing to BiaB AND to no-Chill... you are already way out on the edge of the fairway. For the price of a cube (if you cant score one for free) it might just be worth going for a little safety

But it sounds like you have decided to go down the cube route anyway drtomc - and you have a variety of them to play with. But - with only a 20L pot, you are going to struggle to fill even your new 17L cube - following what passes for "normal" methods in the BiaB world.

A 20L pot would not really be big enough to put 17L of finished wort into a cube, no matter what method you choose, certainly not with single vessel BiaB. There are ways to get around it to an extent - concentrated boils, topping up etc etc. And if you have a separate HLT, that adds flexibility... but if you want to retain the simplicity and ease of standard issue BiaB, then you will need a bigger pot or to do smaller batches

To put 17L of finished wort at normal sort of gravity (to give a 4.7% abv beer) into a cube, you would need a minimum of a 28L pot - and the mash would be right up to the brim. I would usually recommend that to do single batches (19-23L) of BiaB and to be able to brew most strength beers - you would need a 40L pot to be fairly comfortable and 35L at the barest minimum.

Applying all the tricks I could think of - I managed to squeeze a 15L batch out of my 16L BiaB kettle once. But it was a pain in the arse.

BiaB is lovely and simple, and you only need one pot... but it does have to be a big one I'm afraid

Still - have a crack and see what you can whip up. It'll be beer, it'll be AG and most likely it'll be good stuff.

Cheers

Thirsty

 

[buttersd70]

You can simplify it even more by just no-chilling straight to your fermenter, cool overnight, then pitch the next day. Too easy.
cheers

Browndog

Works for me.

 

[datman510]

what is this 'cube' you all seem so keen on.... elaborate for the mildly retarded

 

[Tyred]

Think along the lines of plastic jerry can.

The cube is the food safe one which can cope with high temperatures, including very hot wort. Not necessarily in he shape of a cube either.

 

[trevc]

Cubes are $20 or less. Why screw around if the methods and gear are proven to be a reliable solution to producing good beer? There's nothing to gain except a few dollars, and potentially lots of beer to be wasted when you have an unlucky day with a nasty infection that found its way in.

elaborate for the mildly retarded

Everyone has asked the same question at some point (myself included). Think of the water storing jerry cans at camping stores. Anaconda in QLD has them. Aussie disposals carries them too. Sometimes K-Mart does.

 

[stowaway]

Hate to be a pedant about it - but you have brewed what? 4 AG batches Stow?? and struggled to call your first two drinkable for some period... it could just be that whether its "fine" or not might be a little too early to call in your case.

Yeah, people do No-Chill in the kettle and they get away with it "fine". It all depends whether you want to aim for the pin right at the edge of the green, near the giant sandtrap... or play percentage golf and whack it in the middle of the smooth stuff with a nice safe two putts to finish. Some people might say that by choosing to BiaB AND to no-Chill... you are already way out on the edge of the fairway. For the price of a cube (if you cant score one for free) it might just be worth going for a little safety

But it sounds like you have decided to go down the cube route anyway drtomc - and you have a variety of them to play with. But - with only a 20L pot, you are going to struggle to fill even your new 17L cube - following what passes for "normal" methods in the BiaB world.

A 20L pot would not really be big enough to put 17L of finished wort into a cube, no matter what method you choose, certainly not with single vessel BiaB. There are ways to get around it to an extent - concentrated boils, topping up etc etc. And if you have a separate HLT, that adds flexibility... but if you want to retain the simplicity and ease of standard issue BiaB, then you will need a bigger pot or to do smaller batches

To put 17L of finished wort at normal sort of gravity (to give a 4.7% abv beer) into a cube, you would need a minimum of a 28L pot - and the mash would be right up to the brim. I would usually recommend that to do single batches (19-23L) of BiaB and to be able to brew most strength beers - you would need a 40L pot to be fairly comfortable and 35L at the barest minimum.

Applying all the tricks I could think of - I managed to squeeze a 15L batch out of my 16L BiaB kettle once. But it was a pain in the arse.

BiaB is lovely and simple, and you only need one pot... but it does have to be a big one I'm afraid

Still - have a crack and see what you can whip up. It'll be beer, it'll be AG and most likely it'll be good stuff.

Cheers

Thirsty

5 Batches.
First one. undrinkable.
2nd (okay.. all turned out well.. however not keen on the style) , 3rd (turned out good...) , 4th (wil tell u next week). 5th (used cube)

However. I do know people on this forum who chill in the kettle.. I didnt make up the method... and i maintain now that chilling in the kettle is fine.

I personally belevie the first one was undrinkable because i pitched at a MUCH too high temp. (i did an ice bath......)

 

[hoohaaman]

I've chilled in the kettle with good results and still would circumstances as they were.I wont no chill(just me),but since using a plate chiller,will never look back.

 

[drtomc]

Thanks for the tips TB. One of my jobs for today, as well as collaborating with SWMBO and the sewing machine to make the bag, was to work out what batch size I was going to be able to pull off with the 20L pot. I'm persuaded - off to Preston Market tomorrow for a bigger pot - there's a stall there with some pretty big pots. I don't think I'll go for the 140L one just yet, but it sounds like 60L would give plenty of maneuvering room for standard sized batches.

That said, I like the idea of 17L batches, or even 15L if I got a smaller cube. I don't drink enough to make it though 23L batches fast enough to achieve the variety I'd like.

T.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

drtomc - you have to do a little thinking and juggling - if you like the sounds of 17L batches and you are fairly sure you are only going to do single batches... then maybe 60L is too big.

You get more temperature loss and more evaporation in a big pot... bigger isn't always better.

But

With a 60L pot, you have flexibility, as you said, there is plenty of room in a 60L pot for basically any single batch of beer you care to make & you could get a double batch out of the 60L in a pinch - of pretty nearly anything, seeing as you already have a 20L pot that you can use to heat up extra water in if you need to go to some of the extensions of BiaB to get extra volume.

What the hell, Spillsmostofit does single (23L) batches in a 76L pot without any real problems, I reckon a 60 will give you everything you could ask for for single batch BiaB.... and the ability to up size significantly with only minor mucking about.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'll help if I can and point you at more experienced BiaBers if I can't.

Stowaway - Go for it champ. Its my opinion that you are asking for trouble stacking marginal technique on top of marginal technique. Its not that it cant be made to work, it obviously can. But I would never advise anyone new to brewing to flirt with the edges quite as much as you choose to; especially not the combo of BiaB and NC in kettle. I hope to hell I'm wrong and all your beers are great - then you can tell me so, and I will be forced to expand the horizons of my personal definition of reasonable brewing practice. Wont hurt me, lots of brewers here have had the same thing done to them by the one two punch of No-Chill and BiaB. Probably my turn anyway.

Thirsty

 

[datman510]

Cubes are $20 or less. Why screw around if the methods and gear are proven to be a reliable solution to producing good beer? There's nothing to gain except a few dollars, and potentially lots of beer to be wasted when you have an unlucky day with a nasty infection that found its way in.



Everyone has asked the same question at some point (myself included). Think of the water storing jerry cans at camping stores. Anaconda in QLD has them. Aussie disposals carries them too. Sometimes K-Mart does.

thanks mate... also... whats it for? for mashing?

 

[Weizguy]

the traditionalists wouldnt like this.

but i no chill in my kettle.

works fine.

That's very funny. :lol:
No-chill hasn't been around long enough for anything about it to be traditional.

IMHO, if you (or anyone else) cools wort in a Kettle/Keggle, it's not "chilling" in any definable way. It's a slow cool, and as the air cools in the top of your vessel, it contracts and draws in air from the surrounding environment, which may or may not (more likely) be sanitary. It's probably just a matter of time before you start making bad beer in this way. I hesitate to mention this, but it may already be bad and your taste-buds are not up to detecting it. I'll leave that one with you to make the determination.

drtomc, I can see a relatively quick solution for your kettle issue. Just continue to make the small batches you like and chill (either the boiler or sealed jerry-can/cube) in a sink or bath-tub. No up-sizing required. Pitch your wort to your yeast as soon as possible. This requires a bit of planning if you're using liquid yeast (and need to make a starter).

Hope this helps, and you read it before you spend any money on un-required brew equipment , that you may have to sell cheap to get rid of, in a few months, after the missus starts to go on and on about it taking up space and never gets used, etc...

larry66, the no-chill cube is used to rack hot wort into, after boiling with hops, instead of chilling the wort. The wort is allowed to cool in it's own time, at ambient temperature, in a self-pasteurising package (as long as the right amount of fill and care has been applied to sealing the cube/jerry and the lid has been applied tight and turned upside-down to pasteurise the top of the vessel as it cools. Rack at 80C or hotter, but be careful, fergoodnessake).

Les out

 

[drtomc]

Hope this helps, and you read it before you spend any money on un-required brew equipment , that you may have to sell cheap to get rid of, in a few months, after the missus starts to go on and on about it taking up space and never gets used, etc...

Thanks for the tip. Waayyy too slow. Because I'm easily lead, I decided to lean in TB's suggested direction and go for a 40L pot, but since they'd run out, I got a 50L heavy ally pot. I may yet go and get a 10-12L cube for half batches anyway, though not yet. As for convincing my better half, since we do a fair amount of cooking for large groups, the 50L pot will be great for those times when the 20L pot is full of pasta sauce and we still need to cook the pasta.

Besides, my parents just gave us a large wad of money, so I had to start spending it somehow! ;-)

T.

 

[Weizguy]

Thanks for the tip. Waayyy too slow. Because I'm easily lead, I decided to lean in TB's suggested direction and go for a 40L pot, but since they'd run out, I got a 50L heavy ally pot. I may yet go and get a 10-12L cube for half batches anyway, though not yet. As for convincing my better half, since we do a fair amount of cooking for large groups, the 50L pot will be great for those times when the 20L pot is full of pasta sauce and we still need to cook the pasta.

Besides, my parents just gave us a large wad of money, so I had to start spending it somehow! ;-)

T.

I hope you have a wide stove-top to fit the two pots.

I have a habit of being too slow, but that's not always a problem. Like this case, where you didn't buy something which won't see a lot of use, and will be ready to go when you feel the need to scale up.
I'm easily led as well, but realise that sometimes I need to consider before jumping in. Having said that, the Borret Mill was a no-brainer, and will get plenty of use, and has improved efficiency already, in conjunction with slower sparging via a batch/fly hybrid technique.

 

[drtomc]

I hope you have a wide stove-top to fit the two pots.

We have a ceramic stove that is terrible for the 20L pot, so I can't imagine it'll be remotely useful for the 50L one. But I do have a gas ring also. It's a cheapie from Ray's, but it heats the 20L without too much waiting round, so I figure it'll get me started.

T.

 

[stowaway]

Stowaway - Go for it champ. Its my opinion that you are asking for trouble stacking marginal technique on top of marginal technique. Its not that it cant be made to work, it obviously can. But I would never advise anyone new to brewing to flirt with the edges quite as much as you choose to; especially not the combo of BiaB and NC in kettle. I hope to hell I'm wrong and all your beers are great - then you can tell me so, and I will be forced to expand the horizons of my personal definition of reasonable brewing practice. Wont hurt me, lots of brewers here have had the same thing done to them by the one two punch of No-Chill and BiaB. Probably my turn anyway.

Thirsty

I chill in a cube now anyway. Since attaching my tap to the kettle its just as easy to do.. The reason i originally didnt is because i was using a easy siphon that would have warped under the hot wort.
i was just saying it can be done, (and is done by people on this forum) never said it was the best practice. But when you have limited equiptment sometimes you need to make do with what you have.

But i do have a beer coming up that was chilled in the kettle that i have high hopes for will let u know how it turns out.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thanks for the tip. Waayyy too slow. Because I'm easily lead, I decided to lean in TB's suggested direction and go for a 40L pot, but since they'd run out, I got a 50L heavy ally pot. I may yet go and get a 10-12L cube for half batches anyway, though not yet. As for convincing my better half, since we do a fair amount of cooking for large groups, the 50L pot will be great for those times when the 20L pot is full of pasta sauce and we still need to cook the pasta.

Besides, my parents just gave us a large wad of money, so I had to start spending it somehow! ;-)

T.

awww - c'mon, not my fault. I did mention that it was a bigger pot or smaller batches. Its just that smaller batches needs less explaining that's all.

And of course Les is right - you don't have to no-chill. You could do it "properly" and actually rapid chill your wort down in the kettle before transfer. Easy enough if you have a smaller (say 20L.....) kettle that will fit in a sink or tub and isn't too heavy to carry when full. For smaller batches, a 10-12L cube would allow you to preserve your wort to ferment at a later date - but you certainly don't need one.

Your 50L pot will serve you well though - in a matter of months you will have a burner and a brewstand and a kegging system and probably a mashtun and a plate chiller and 5 or 6 fermentors and a fridge or two ..... I don't see why Les would think your missus might object

Cheers

TB