Oak Matured Porter

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No I never rehydrate my dried yeasts and havnt had a problem so far... Does the high gravity have something to do with it?

II always rehydrate to prove the yeast (see if it's ok, no point finding out 3 days later), higher gravity beers require more yeast, have a look here for pitching rates http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

Select the dried yeast tab, set wort gravity and volume, tick calculate viability from date and enter yeast manufacture date (if you believe the yeast storage practiced by your LHBS to be suspect you can reduce the viability figure a little from the viability calculated using the mfg date)

Cheers,

Screwy
 
I guess i didnt think of the yeast not being ok <_<

So yeah, I popped home and still nothing happening, so I pitched the 1968.. Hopefully it will kick off now...
 
I have a very limited understanding of dry yeast (I know nothing of liquid yeast), but (as Frank Gallagher would say).

When dry yeast is pitched it is dehydrated and needs to absorb water, at this stage its cell membrane is thin/weak and it absorbs a shitload of whatever it can get instantly. If there was alcohol in the wort at pitching it could absorb this and die. Maybe. :blink:

I'm sure there are people on here that would know about this stuff, and hopefully they could enlighten us (me).
 
If your sanitation is up to snuff, 3 days won't really hurt you (but I agree that it is cause for concern). No need to worry about oxidation because the yeast wasn't working anyway. Oxygen is good before the yeast gets working, and it obviously wasn't working.

As to why the yeast didn't take off, it was probably a very old or very bad sachet. Even dry yeast doesn't like the shock of being pitched into a high gravity wort, but a packet of dry yeast has (or is supposed to have) so many viable cells that it shouldn't matter. It could have been stored poorly prior to you buying it.....it's very hard to pin down why it didn't perform without knowing how it was handled.

Do you oxygenate your wort at all? Even sloshing the wort around in a closed fermenter helps. A high gravity low O2 wort might explain the long lag time.

I hope you see a layer of foam when you get home. :beer:
 
If your sanitation is up to snuff, 3 days won't really hurt you (but I agree that it is cause for concern). No need to worry about oxidation because the yeast wasn't working anyway. Oxygen is good before the yeast gets working, and it obviously wasn't working.

As to why the yeast didn't take off, it was probably a very old or very bad sachet. Even dry yeast doesn't like the shock of being pitched into a high gravity wort, but a packet of dry yeast has (or is supposed to have) so many viable cells that it shouldn't matter. It could have been stored poorly prior to you buying it.....it's very hard to pin down why it didn't perform without knowing how it was handled.

Do you oxygenate your wort at all? Even sloshing the wort around in a closed fermenter helps. A high gravity low O2 wort might explain the long lag time.

I hope you see a layer of foam when you get home. :beer:

Yeah I oxugenate by no chilling, and then dumping the wort into the fermenter slowly from a height... So will all that oxygen still be there for the new yeast? Or should I have shaken it again?

Am fully hoping the 1968 goes to work fast, at least it was viable aye ;) I may even end up with a hybrid S-1968-04 yeast :huh:

Ahh well, 3 packs of liquid yeast should be arriving in the next week or so, so ill be saying bye bye to dried yeasts (apart from as a back up)
 
Your routine should have introduced sufficient oxygen. It seems as though you got a bum batch of dried yeast.
 
Your routine should have introduced sufficient oxygen. It seems as though you got a bum batch of dried yeast.

It does seem that way doesnt it <_< I probably dont have a leg to stand on if I go back there either?

Bloody useless Brewcraft! No one should ever shop there, ever, for anything!!!
 
Oak is a fairly complex subject, different forms interact differently with your brew (Oak chips, cubes, staves, barrels) they all impart their oak character differently. The advice I have received from mead forums (gotmead) is that chips tend to oak mead to quickly; you can easily overstep the desired level. Cubes on the other hand offer a more rounded oak flavor; it's all got to do with surface area.

Secondly different kinds of oak have different flavors, not to mention the different toast levels and the amount of times the oak has been used (if you are referring to a barrel). Even the sourcing of the oak (is it French or American?) affects flavor. Personally I think all of these things would influence a beer as much as a wine or mead.

Regarding the sanitizing of the oak cubes (personally I have yet to use them) but the advice from gotmead is rise in a light sanitizing solution (Iodophor or Star San) then rinse with bottled water. Rack the beer onto the oak and let be (be sure to taste it fairly regularly though, especially if you end up using chips)



Regarding the Yeast:

-fermentis

That's a link to a range of PDF's with all the technical data.



Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C 3C. Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.



Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C. Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.



You don't have to rehydrate s-04 or any other yeasts in that range provided your wort is above 20C. The recommended fermentation temp is 15-24C, what temperature is your wort? The yeast is viable for 24months provided it has been stored correctly (under 10C cool and dry).



For the higher gravity beers you might want to look into a product called goferm








NUTRIENTS FOR ALCOHOLIC FERMENTATION

Since Lallemand began producing yeast in the early 20th century, we have understood the importance of providing growing yeast the nutrients they need to survive and reach their maximum potential. Experiences in our own yeast production fermentations laid the groundwork for our nutrient formulations. We have also collaborated with others in the area of yeast growth nutrition and fermentation to attempt to understand the complex and often frustrating interactions in grape must.

Lallemand offers three classifications of yeast fermentation nutrients:

1. Nutrients and Protectants Added to Yeast Rehydration Water
2. Complex Yeast Nutrients for Use During Fermentation
3. Other Yeast Nutrients for Use During Fermentation.

Nutrients and Protectants Added to Yeast Rehydration Water

GO-FERM
Lallemand's collaboration with the INRA in Montpellier and other institutes throughout the world confirmed the critical role of yeast micronutrients, but more importantly, it identified the most effective way to ensure that these micronutrients benefit the selected yeast.

The result of this research was the development of GO-FERM, a natural yeast nutrient to avoid sluggish and stuck fermentations. GO-FERM is specific inactive yeast produced through a unique yeast biomass process fine-tuned to obtain high levels of certain essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids required for healthy yeast fermentations.

The GO-FERM approach is to provide bioavailable micronutrients in the non-stressful environment of the yeast rehydration water instead of the traditional method of adding micronutrients to the must. During rehydration, the yeast acts like a sponge, soaking up GO-FERM's bioavailable nutrients. This direct contact between GO-FERM and the yeast in the absence of the must matrix avoids chelation of key minerals by inorganic anions, organic acids, polyphenols and polysaccharides present in the must. It also prevents essential vitamins from being rapidly taken up by the competitive wild microflora or inactivated by SO2. By making key minerals and vitamins available to the selected yeast at the critical beginning of its stressful task, the yeast's viability increases and fermentations finish stronger.

The use of GO-FERM results in significantly better overall health of yeast cells through-out the fermentation, affecting fermentation kinetics and resulting in a cleaner aromatic profile.

Dosage recommendations: Use 30 g/hL (2.4 lb/1000 gal) of GO-FERM when rehydrating yeast to supply critical micronutrients. Note: This recommendation is based on a yeast inoculum of 25 g/hL (2 lb/1000 gal). If using more or less yeast, respect a ratio of 1 part yeast:1.25 parts GO-FERM.

IMPORTANT:

NEVER USE NUTRIENTS CONTAINING AMMONIA SALTS SUCH AS DAP DURING YEAST REHYDRATION - THEY ARE TOXIC TO THE YEAST AT HIGH LEVELS!

-Go Ferm



I haven't heard of it been used in beer, but if you rehydrate yeast it might be worth looking into in the future. I hope some of that helped, if not for now for the future.
 
Just an update, woke up on saturday morning and the Wyeast 1968 had kicked off with a bang!! Nice thick layer of krausen and bubbling away like crazy :)

Gonna leave it another 2 days or so then rack onto the oak and port B)
 
Just an update, woke up on saturday morning and the Wyeast 1968 had kicked off with a bang!! Nice thick layer of krausen and bubbling away like crazy :)

Gonna leave it another 2 days or so then rack onto the oak and port B)


Great news reviled, dried yeasts are good used correctly and for the required style and profile you are after from the yeast.

You don't have to rehydrate s-04 or any other yeasts in that range provided your wort is above 20C. The recommended fermentation temp is 15-24C, what temperature is your wort? The yeast is viable for 24months provided it has been stored correctly (under 10C cool and dry).

If you bought it on the date of manufacture and stored it correctly great. If you didn't, rehydrate to prove the yeast and save yourself some time and concern. Peice a piss this brewing game eh :lol:
 
Sweet, so racked this baby last night...

Took 20grams of Oak Chips (read - shavings, or saw dust <_< ) and tied into a muslin bag, steamed for 10 mins and put in the secondary along with 500mls of Tawny Port, i just couldnt help myself, the port tasted and smelt so good :icon_drunk:
Im gonna leave it for about 3 weeks before I have my first sneaky taste... Will update this when I do :beerbang:
 
Update : :icon_cheers:

Took an SG reading on friday night, sitting at 1018, which is what beersmith predicted, so all cool... Had a sneaky taste as well, quite sweet with a oaky bitterness in the finish, I wouldnt call it astringent tho...

Racked it off the oak chips and into a third fermenter, and put another 100mls of Port in there :rolleyes: So the beer was on the oak for 31 days exactly...

Bottled it yesterday (I hate bottling <_< ) Did the whole batch in 500ml bottles, bulk primed 23 litres with 130g of Dex, it had an awesome Port smell when I was bottling, just amazing!!

I really think this will smooth out nicely in the bottle, im gonna try and leave it 2-3 months at least before I touch them...


:icon_offtopic:
On another note, had a bourbon porter maturing for 2 months now, had a bottle in the weekend, was fantastic!! A whole pint is a bit much tho...
 
Less oak and longer contact generally produces the best results in wines and spirits. For example, that could involve steeping the chips for 6 months in sweet sherry or port, then giving the brew 6 months of uptake. I'm not aware of too many winemakers that bother with sterilisation of chips (barrels are a different matter). Apart from the question of whether the oak is American or French, and whether it has been toasted or not, there is also the issue of whether it is fresh or not. The cheapest source is probably ex red wine barrels, and that turns up in the LHBS. This has the advantage that it has had some of its tannin pre-leached, but it has probably also lost some of its wood aromatics and gained some from the wine, depending which depth of the barrel staves they are recycling.
 
Less oak and longer contact generally produces the best results in wines and spirits. For example, that could involve steeping the chips for 6 months in sweet sherry or port, then giving the brew 6 months of uptake. I'm not aware of too many winemakers that bother with sterilisation of chips (barrels are a different matter). Apart from the question of whether the oak is American or French, and whether it has been toasted or not, there is also the issue of whether it is fresh or not. The cheapest source is probably ex red wine barrels, and that turns up in the LHBS. This has the advantage that it has had some of its tannin pre-leached, but it has probably also lost some of its wood aromatics and gained some from the wine, depending which depth of the barrel staves they are recycling.

To be honest, I wouldnt even call what I got oak chips, more like sawdust... lol
 
So I tried the Port Stout last night after 2 and a half months in the bottle, and well, it was very interesting...

Poured at 3*c so a bit cold, was bright as I poured, ruby highlights and a big tan head... Aroma when cold was hints of coffee and choc, but when it warmed up was like sour grapes... Flavour was really complex, it took me about half a pint to figure out what I was tasting, when it was cold it went down really easy, dark, roasty with a tart slightly sour grape finish which lingers, as it warmed up the tarty sour grape finish started to dominate alot more, but it wasnt undesirable... I couldnt really pick up on any oak flavours, it just added to the complexity of it all I think..

Definately glad I did this, reckon this brew will go down really well in the winter B)
 
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