Oak Matured Porter

[reviled]

Hey guys, I need some advice cos I havent done this before...

I want to do an Oak Matured Porter by using some oak chips... This is my recipe

5-6kg Maris Otter (not sure yet)
350g Chocolate
210g Cara Aroma
200g Caramalt
110g Cara Munich
80g Carafa I
50g Black Patent
100g Roast Barley

Not sure on hop additions at this stage, any suggestions for this would be appreciated...

And im thinking, ferment out over say 3-4 days, then transfer into a secondary with the oak chips and leave for 2 weeks before racking out for bulk priming... I obviously need to somehow steralise the oak chips, but is 2 weeks going to be long enough? Or should I look at using a cube as a secondary and leaving it with the oak chips for a month or so?

If all goes well, im gonna repeat this using some jack daniels bourbon chips...

Edit : The black patent and roast barley was crushed with a rolling pin so I used more than I was originally planning to.. And ive also got 300 grams of Munich which I may add at the last minute

 

[reviled]

Anyone?

 

[Muggus]

I made an oak aged Porter for the last NSW Caseswap. Pretty happy with the result. Was a reasonably hefty, but dry porter, fermented it for 7 days, racked onto sterile French oak chips, left for 3 months.

If you're happy with your grain bill, thats cool, but you may want to keep the roasted/black grains a bit lower because oak adds to the overall tannin/astrigency of the beer.
Also make sure you're porter has plenty of body, oak becomes more prominant in drier beers.
A higher alcohol content will also help fortify your brew if you do plan for a long maturation.

Just out of interest, what oak chips did you plan using?
2 weeks is recommended, probably the bare minimum. A month or two is probably a bit better. The longer you leave it the more integrated the oak becomes, but you tend to lose some aromatics of the beer itself and risk infection/oxidisation, not to mention having to wait so long.

 

[reviled]

Hey mate, cheers for the reply...

Im looking for something fairly out there, nice and roasty with a good oaky bitterness to the finish, ive allready cracked and mixed my grain so will probably stick with the recipe, maybe use 6-7kg of MO to crank the alchohol and mash in at 68 to get a bit more body?

I was planning on using oak chips from the LHBS, used for wine purposes normally, allthough I was also considering using toasted oak chips which I thought might mix well with my grain bill? Also, how do you steralise the oak chips?

Im happy to leave it over a month, time isnt an issue, especially not for a really good beer B) How long will the co2 pressure stay in after fermentation has stopped?

Cheers

I made an oak aged Porter for the last NSW Caseswap. Pretty happy with the result. Was a reasonably hefty, but dry porter, fermented it for 7 days, racked onto sterile French oak chips, left for 3 months.

If you're happy with your grain bill, thats cool, but you may want to keep the roasted/black grains a bit lower because oak adds to the overall tannin/astrigency of the beer.
Also make sure you're porter has plenty of body, oak becomes more prominant in drier beers.
A higher alcohol content will also help fortify your brew if you do plan for a long maturation.

Just out of interest, what oak chips did you plan using?
2 weeks is recommended, probably the bare minimum. A month or two is probably a bit better. The longer you leave it the more integrated the oak becomes, but you tend to lose some aromatics of the beer itself and risk infection/oxidisation, not to mention having to wait so long.

 

[Muggus]

Im looking for something fairly out there, nice and roasty with a good oaky bitterness to the finish, ive allready cracked and mixed my grain so will probably stick with the recipe, maybe use 6-7kg of MO to crank the alchohol and mash in at 68 to get a bit more body?

Yeah 68 sounds good. A bit of extra body/sweetness will help balance the sharpness/tannin of the oak.

I was planning on using oak chips from the LHBS, used for wine purposes normally, allthough I was also considering using toasted oak chips which I thought might mix well with my grain bill? Also, how do you steralise the oak chips?

Oak chips from the LHBS are generally for wine, or spirit, purposes anyway. Do the chips you're using have any reference to how 'toasted' they are?
Most oak for aging wine,etc, is toasted beforehand to a certain degree. Something like French oak is usually a medium toasted and gives off less intense flavours than your typical American oak, which has a been heavily toasted and will give you a more robust, intense character. Always a good idea to check beforehand so you know what you're dealing with.

As far as sterilising goes, best to steep them in a litre or so of water in a pot and bring it to the boil for a few minutes. Then strain the liquid off and you can chuck the chips into your fermenter, or whatever. This'll also get rid of the little splinters you may get that come in them.

Im happy to leave it over a month, time isnt an issue, especially not for a really good beer B) How long will the co2 pressure stay in after fermentation has stopped?

I recall there still being pressure in my plastic fermenter that I aged a barley wine for 6 months in...so I think a couple of months should be alright

 

[reviled]

Cheers for the reply buddy...

Ok, so heres what im thinking, ive got a 1.5kg can of lme sitting around, I might use that, along with 4-5kg of Maris Otter which should give me a pretty good OG, enough to handle the ageing etc, but not too much extract for the beer to be crappy...

The oak chips ive got at the moment are raw, and the other ones I looked at simply said "toasted oak chips" so unfortunately doesnt indicate the level at which its been toasted, so I would be best to use raw ones?

Hmmmm, ive got a cube which I havnt used yet, might be a better idea to age it in there yeah? That way there would be less head space etc... Just a thought?

Cheers

Yeah 68 sounds good. A bit of extra body/sweetness will help balance the sharpness/tannin of the oak.


Oak chips from the LHBS are generally for wine, or spirit, purposes anyway. Do the chips you're using have any reference to how 'toasted' they are?
Most oak for aging wine,etc, is toasted beforehand to a certain degree. Something like French oak is usually a medium toasted and gives off less intense flavours than your typical American oak, which has a been heavily toasted and will give you a more robust, intense character. Always a good idea to check beforehand so you know what you're dealing with.

As far as sterilising goes, best to steep them in a litre or so of water in a pot and bring it to the boil for a few minutes. Then strain the liquid off and you can chuck the chips into your fermenter, or whatever. This'll also get rid of the little splinters you may get that come in them.


I recall there still being pressure in my plastic fermenter that I aged a barley wine for 6 months in...so I think a couple of months should be alright

 

[beers]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-St...5-08-Wood-Aging

 

[reviled]

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/Brew-St...5-08-Wood-Aging

Cheers bud, but I cant download/stream at work, and dont have the internet at home <_<

Care to give me the low down?

 

[reviled]

Bump :icon_cheers:

Allrighty, this is what im planning, I brewed this up in the weekend...

4kg Maris Otter
350g Chocolate
210g Cara Aroma
200g Caramalt
110g Cara Munich
80g Carafa I
50g Black Patent
100g Roast Barley
1 x can Black Rock Light liquid malt extract

60 mins : 28g Nugget
15 mins : 20g Fuggles, 15g Williamette
Flame out : 15g Cascade, 8g Styrian

Got an OG of 1070 and im thinking of doing an Oak Port Porter ish thing :huh:

Basically, what im thinking is letting this sucker ferment out for 4-5 days, rack it into a secondary with about 300-400mls of Port and some oak chips, then ill leave it in the secondary for about 2-3 months then bottle... Im hoping that the sweetness in the port will counter balance the astringency of the Oak chips and roasted malts, anyone got any thoughts on this?

 

[newguy]

I did an oak porter some time ago and I've tasted a lot of them over the years. Your recipe looks good in that the darker grains are a relatively small proportion of your malt bill as roasted grains + oak can be pretty intense. Some port, I think, would be a great addition - I want to try this myself sometime. As for how long you want to leave the beer on the oak, are you shooting for a "clean" beer (ie no bacteria, no brett, no "wild" infection) or do you want a lambic-like finish? If you want a clean beer, then you don't need more than 2-3 weeks' contact with the oak (as long as it is sanitised). If you're shooting for a funky beer, then you'll need the few months of contact that you specified.

To sanitise the oak chips, you have a couple of options. You can steam them (don't boil them) for ~10 minutes or you can soak them in a good Scotch for a day or so. Don't count on port to sanitise them as port just isn't strong enough to do it reliably.

Expect a drier-finishing beer, as pretty much all the oaked beers I've ever tried ended up finishing quite dry. The port will accentuate this, but with the small amount you're planning to use, it shouldn't be much of a contributing factor.

Hope this helps. :beer:

 

[reviled]

I did an oak porter some time ago and I've tasted a lot of them over the years. Your recipe looks good in that the darker grains are a relatively small proportion of your malt bill as roasted grains + oak can be pretty intense. Some port, I think, would be a great addition - I want to try this myself sometime. As for how long you want to leave the beer on the oak, are you shooting for a "clean" beer (ie no bacteria, no brett, no "wild" infection) or do you want a lambic-like finish? If you want a clean beer, then you don't need more than 2-3 weeks' contact with the oak (as long as it is sanitised). If you're shooting for a funky beer, then you'll need the few months of contact that you specified.

To sanitise the oak chips, you have a couple of options. You can steam them (don't boil them) for ~10 minutes or you can soak them in a good Scotch for a day or so. Don't count on port to sanitise them as port just isn't strong enough to do it reliably.

Expect a drier-finishing beer, as pretty much all the oaked beers I've ever tried ended up finishing quite dry. The port will accentuate this, but with the small amount you're planning to use, it shouldn't be much of a contributing factor.

Hope this helps. :beer:

Hey mate thats awesome, cheers! Im thinking a sort of funky finish might go well with this, so ill age it for a month or so with the oak chips, along with a very long maturation stage in the bottle?

Couple of questions, why cant I boil them? Is that going to drive flavours off etc? And also, do you think 400mls of Port will be enough? It will be noticable right?

 

[newguy]

If you truly want a funky finish, don't sanitise the oak at all. Just be warned: it WILL be sour. If you go that route, use maybe 1/2 the priming sugar you normally would, as the bacteria/wild yeast will happily eat everything in the beer. If you prime with your normal amount of sugar, expect bottle grenades. Also be aware that if you go with this sort of wild fermentation, there won't be any residual port sweetness at all. There won't be much in a clean beer, but there will be a LOT less in a wild beer.

Why shouldn't you boil oak? Past experience. I tasted one porter that the brewer had boiled the oak chips in a tiny amount of water and added the works (water + oak) to the fermenter. :icon_vomit: Astringent as hell. I suppose if you were careful to drain all the water, it should be okay but then that complicates things because you'll have to ensure that however you drain the water is sanitary/sanitised. The best tasting oaked beers I can remember all used oak chips soaked in Scotch (no steaming/boiling). But then again, I love a good single malt. :wub:

400ml of port should be a good start. You can always add more later if it's not to your liking.

 

[reviled]

If you truly want a funky finish, don't sanitise the oak at all. Just be warned: it WILL be sour. If you go that route, use maybe 1/2 the priming sugar you normally would, as the bacteria/wild yeast will happily eat everything in the beer. If you prime with your normal amount of sugar, expect bottle grenades. Also be aware that if you go with this sort of wild fermentation, there won't be any residual port sweetness at all. There won't be much in a clean beer, but there will be a LOT less in a wild beer.

Why shouldn't you boil oak? Past experience. I tasted one porter that the brewer had boiled the oak chips in a tiny amount of water and added the works (water + oak) to the fermenter. :icon_vomit: Astringent as hell. I suppose if you were careful to drain all the water, it should be okay but then that complicates things because you'll have to ensure that however you drain the water is sanitary/sanitised. The best tasting oaked beers I can remember all used oak chips soaked in Scotch (no steaming/boiling). But then again, I love a good single malt. :wub:

400ml of port should be a good start. You can always add more later if it's not to your liking.

The word "sour" freaks me out a bit, I dont think I want to go that far down the funky path, maybe just a slight funky finish from the oak ageing... I also dont want to get rid of the Port sweetness.

Soaked in scotch sounds pretty cool, but wouldnt the flavour come across in the beer? Not really something I want to mix with the port, but in saying that, it might taste good? I have some Jim Beam Black Label, could I use that instead of Scotch? What do you think the flavour impact might be?

Steaming seems to be the easiest and straight forward option I guess? :unsure: Man, the more I think about this beer the more I want to try it :icon_drunk:

Also, how would I add more port later on? Are you meaning if I taste before I bottle it to see where its at? And if it needs more add just before bottling?

 

[newguy]

The word "sour" freaks me out a bit, I dont think I want to go that far down the funky path, maybe just a slight funky finish from the oak ageing... I also dont want to get rid of the Port sweetness.

That's what I thought.

Soaked in scotch sounds pretty cool, but wouldnt the flavour come across in the beer? Not really something I want to mix with the port, but in saying that, it might taste good? I have some Jim Beam Black Label, could I use that instead of Scotch? What do you think the flavour impact might be?

A very small amount, just a hint, of the scotch comes through in the finished beer. A friend used an entire "26" (750ml) in a 5 gallon batch and that was noticeable. The two or three ounces it would take to sanitise some oak chips shouldn't make much, if any, difference. So at that level you could use almost any spirit, JB included.

Steaming seems to be the easiest and straight forward option I guess? :unsure: Man, the more I think about this beer the more I want to try it :icon_drunk:

Steaming is probably the easiest and least "complicating" option. You probably don't want the beer to be too complicated so you can find out what impact the oak and port have on the finished beer. Adding a significant amount of whisky will add another dimension. I agree you should steam the chips to keep things simpler for now. Experiment with whisky on subsequent batches, if you wish. But just as an aside, a good porter or stout with a dash of Scotch added to the glass can be heavenly. :icon_drool2:

Also, how would I add more port later on? Are you meaning if I taste before I bottle it to see where its at? And if it needs more add just before bottling?

After maybe a week, try the beer to see if you like the taste. If the port just isn't strong enough, add some more. However, give it time before bottling because the sugars in the port will kickstart the yeast again. A few days should be plenty if the amount of port you add is quite small, 300ml or less. If you add some port & immediately bottle without taking that sugar into account.......boom.

 

[reviled]

That's what I thought.



A very small amount, just a hint, of the scotch comes through in the finished beer. A friend used an entire "26" (750ml) in a 5 gallon batch and that was noticeable. The two or three ounces it would take to sanitise some oak chips shouldn't make much, if any, difference. So at that level you could use almost any spirit, JB included.



Steaming is probably the easiest and least "complicating" option. You probably don't want the beer to be too complicated so you can find out what impact the oak and port have on the finished beer. Adding a significant amount of whisky will add another dimension. I agree you should steam the chips to keep things simpler for now. Experiment with whisky on subsequent batches, if you wish. But just as an aside, a good porter or stout with a dash of Scotch added to the glass can be heavenly. :icon_drool2:



After maybe a week, try the beer to see if you like the taste. If the port just isn't strong enough, add some more. However, give it time before bottling because the sugars in the port will kickstart the yeast again. A few days should be plenty if the amount of port you add is quite small, 300ml or less. If you add some port & immediately bottle without taking that sugar into account.......boom.

Sweet as mate, cheers for all the info!

So it seems im gonna steam the oak chips for about 10-15 mins and avoid the Jim Beam (for now anyway, I recently did a Bourbon Porter with about 400mls of Bourbon, so im keen on something different)

And ill start off with 400mls of Port, ill try get something half decent as well, and see how we go..

Ill keep this thread updated :beerbang:

 

[Fourstar]

You could always do a sodium met soak w/ the chips then soak, drain, then soak in youre desired spirit. Good option if you're afraid of astringencies w/the boil

personally i would go this route as the preferred option if i didnt want it to funk out.

 

[reviled]

You could always do a sodium met soak w/ the chips then soak, drain, then soak in youre desired spirit. Good option if you're afraid of astringencies w/the boil

personally i would go this route as the preferred option if i didnt want it to funk out.

Sodium Met Yeah, cheers mate but I cant handle that stuff aye, im asthmatic so it really doesnt agree with me...

 

[reviled]

Ok, im a little concerned as to whats going on with this brew right now...

I transferred the wort to the fermenter 3 days ago and pitched a packet of S-04... And then waited... And waited more... And then got up this morning and theres still no yeast activity?!?!?! :huh:

Airlock isnt bubbling, no condensation on the lid, no krausen, nothing I took an OG reading and its still 1070?

Does anyone know what could have happened? Is my yeast dead? Faulty packet?

I have a starter with some Wyeast 1968 in it at high krausen, should I pitch this when I get home? Also wondering if this three days after having the wort oxidised will fully oxidise the beer?

Cheers

 

[Screwtop]

Ok, im a little concerned as to whats going on with this brew right now...

I transferred the wort to the fermenter 3 days ago and pitched a packet of S-04... And then waited... And waited more... And then got up this morning and theres still no yeast activity?!?!?! :huh:

Airlock isnt bubbling, no condensation on the lid, no krausen, nothing I took an OG reading and its still 1070?

Does anyone know what could have happened? Is my yeast dead? Faulty packet?

I have a starter with some Wyeast 1968 in it at high krausen, should I pitch this when I get home? Also wondering if this three days after having the wort oxidised will fully oxidise the beer?

Cheers

Did you rehydrate the yeast, if so did it foam (prove)? At 1.070 think I would have pitched 2 packs so an additional would not hurt (rehydrated).

As for the oak chips - you could put them in the microwave on power setting 2 or around 20% for 15 min this setting will maintain pasteurisation temp but not burn.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[reviled]

Did you rehydrate the yeast, if so did it foam (prove)? At 1.070 think I would have pitched 2 packs so an additional would not hurt (rehydrated).

As for the oak chips - you could put them in the microwave on power setting 2 or around 20% for 15 min this setting will maintain pasteurisation temp but not burn.

Cheers,

Screwy

No I never rehydrate my dried yeasts and havnt had a problem so far... Does the high gravity have something to do with it?