Novice after some tips about the KK Series 4 Kegerator

[Nate Ryan]

G'day,

I've just moved into a place that has a converted garage (previous owners used it as a hair salon). So I've got myself an old timber bar and barstools and I'm dead keen on having beer on tap in my own "mini pub". Initially I thought I'd get a KK Series 4 and stick the 2 tap font on top to run 2 beers and get myself 4 of the 25L kegs. I've now come to realise I could be flawed in this idea. To start with I've read the 25L kegs seem to be more like 23L kegs. Also I was going to brew at one of them on premise brewing places which make a 50L brew. So the idea of a keg of each on tap and a spare of each doesn't quite match up. Then reading further, the onsite brewery does unpasteurised and preservative free beer which I've read needs to be refrigerated. But 4x 23 or 25L wont fit in the kegerator fridge. So the way I see it is if I want to skip brewing my own at home (not confident in myself to get consistent results between brews) then I need to get a second fridge to store my backup kegs or switch to a 50L keg and only venture off to the onsite brewer when its empty. Or the other option is buy commercial keg beer which doesn't need to be stored under refrigeration and go the one tap. So I guess what I'm asking is have I got my facts straight? Any tips or corrections would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Nate

 

[mtb]

Welcome on board mate.

the onsite brewery does unpasteurised and preservative free beer which I've read needs to be refrigerated.

While I'm happy to be corrected, I'm almost certain whomever advised you of that is full of shit.
The only reason they suggest you refrigerate your beer is because they keg it too early, or know there's a chance they're doing so (ie before fermentation is complete) and refrigerating halts/slows further fermentation. Such practice lets them get their beers out the door quicker and limits their liability by telling you to refrigerate (if you did leave it at room temp, and it continued to ferment, you'd have an overpressurised keg and lots of beer foam on your hands - but it's not their fault because they told you to refrigerate). I'm taking from some experiences with U-Brew-It so I am likely fairly biased, there may be another & good reason for advising that you refrigerate aside from best practice, I just can't think of one.

Theoretically everyone on this forum, minus a couple select cases, brew unpasteurised and preservative free beer - and plenty of us store at room temp without problems. Sorry to hijack a thread to bitch about these on-premise breweries, I'll also try contribute something more helpful

 

[mtb]

What you could do mate, is buy a few spunding valves for your kegs. Then you can keep them at room temp and vent extra pressure caused by post-sale fermentation right out. No need for an additional fridge.

ed: link to a spunding valve: https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pr...E--pressure-relief-valve-ball-lock-adjustable

 

[Bonenose]

Could always convert a chest freezer, bit of stuffing around but depending on size can fit more kegs. Or just put a temp controller on a chest freezer and use for keg storage if you want to store at low temps.

 

[Grott]

mtb you are correct about having to put the brews in the fridge because carbonation may not be complete, obviously dangerous if bottles not done. U-Brew-it work to a time line (14 days I think) rather than check if fermentation has been completed by using a hydrometer. (Hate think what you have if yeast stalled etc)

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Welcome on board mate.

While I'm happy to be corrected, I'm almost certain whomever advised you of that is full of shit.
The only reason they suggest you refrigerate your beer is because they keg it too early, or know there's a chance they're doing so (ie before fermentation is complete) and refrigerating halts/slows further fermentation. Such practice lets them get their beers out the door quicker and limits their liability by telling you to refrigerate (if you did leave it at room temp, and it continued to ferment, you'd have an overpressurised keg and lots of beer foam on your hands - but it's not their fault because they told you to refrigerate). I'm taking from some experiences with U-Brew-It so I am likely fairly biased, there may be another & good reason for advising that you refrigerate aside from best practice, I just can't think of one.

Theoretically everyone on this forum, minus a couple select cases, brew unpasteurised and preservative free beer - and plenty of us store at room temp without problems. Sorry to hijack a thread to bitch about these on-premise breweries, I'll also try contribute something more helpful

Going back a few years ago there was a discussion about U-Brew-It and if my memory serves me correctly, what you say is pretty much exactly what was stated back then.

 

[Judanero]

That may be the primary reason for U-brew-It advocating for refrigerated storage, but maybe not.
Cold storage of finished beer is desirable for flavour stability by slowing down chemical reactions responsible for staling/ muting of flavours.

Most of the decent breweries will store their finished product cold asap to keep it as fresh as possible, and I think Sierra Nevada will only move their beer in refrigerated trucks/ shipping containers.

There's a podcast on Flavour stability by Charles Bamforth (Beersmith podcast from memory) in which he goes in to it a bit, and there's a chapter that has some in depth chemical reactions (Brewing science and practice, Boulton Briggs et al 2009) for the more in depth information (Googling either of these you will be able to find them fairly easily).

On a home brew scale though, it may not be as much of an issue- not trying to reproduce the exact same beer time and time again, and not having a 'brand' to protect. I would personally advocate for a cheap second hand fridge for cold storage if you have the room.

 

[Nate Ryan]

First off, thanks for the replies! Great to get some advice from people who know. Sounds like its a storage fridge for the spare kegs or the spunding valves then. So U-Brew or The Beer Shed where I was planning to go could still give me a less than optimum beer because of the 2 week turn around? Would carbing the kegs after they were refridgerated (can only carb cold kegs right?) help with storage if I then stored them at room temp and carbed the other kegs and left them refrigerated for pouring? And the spunding valves just release the pressure automatically or would I need to check them? One more thing, say I split the 50L brew between 3 corny kegs would that work even though one wouldnt be totally full? Does getting the oxygen out of the keg slow or stop the fermentation in any way? Or is that just a good way to chew up your CO2?

 

[MartinOC]

Going back a few years ago there was a discussion about U-Brew-It and if my memory serves me correctly, what you say is pretty much exactly what was stated back then.

http://www.lockwoodcompany.com.au/S2965.htm

ho hum....

 

[Grott]

From the U - Brew - It web site:-

"Q.Why does the beer have to be refridgerated?

A.Your beer contains no preservatives, so re-fermentation may occur given the right circumstances. Sugars in Beer can ferment at temperatures 7degC and above so refrigeration is required to keep the temperature below this mark."

 

[GalBrew]

I would be keeping it cold as it will most likely be infected.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

http://www.lockwoodcompany.com.au/S2965.htm

ho hum....

Ho-Lee Far King Sheet.

There could be some really good buys amongst that lot.

50 litre s/s jacketed fermenters, carbonating kegs, 20 litre and 50 litre kegs etc.

Someone starting a small scale craft brewery could do well to attend.

 

[Nate Ryan]

So, looks like I might be scoring an old upright fridge from the missus' friend who's moving interstate. I've asked her to measure the inside dimensions and by the sounds of it I reckon I'll get 2 of them 23/25L kegs in it. So that would be 2 kegs spare under refrigeration and the 2 kegs in the kegerator ready to go. So that just leaves me with the problem of the extra couple of litres per batch from the BrewShed. I figure I'd do what my old neighbour did with his brew when he was waiting for it to carb. Half a glass of his brew and half Reschs DA (too young to drink then but he seemed to like it?). So that's the go unless I've misread anything above or misunderstood anything (the downside to being as smart as I look haha) that should do the trick?

 

[Jase]

G'day Nate,

Firstly, welcome aboard!

Is there any particular reason why you don't have a crack at brewing yourself? Learning along the way is the best part of this obsession (other than drinking the beer of course!)

If you are not sure on beer styles, you could always experiment with fresh wort kits, (in case you are unsure what they are, FWK are kits brewed by brewers that you can ferment at home). If you do so, you can buy the more common 19l post mix kegs and use your kegerator as designed.

Do some more research on here, ask plenty of questions and most importantly just enjoy the whole experience.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Jase

 

[Judanero]

For ~$15 you can pick up a box of Coopers PET (15 x 740mL) bottles and for $4 a bag of carbonation drops (both from Big W), if it's only a couple litres per batch you'd only have to bottle a few per batch.
Benefit being if for some reason fermentation hadn't completed in 14 days (with a healthy pitch of yeast it should be plenty of time- beer style and temperature dependent of course*) then you wouldn't have to worry about exploding glass bottles. And you can compare bottle conditioned beers over time compared to the kegged product.

*Bigger beers and lagers will require more yeast and usually more time, and even after fermentation is complete a bit of extra time for the yeast to metabolise fermentation byproducts is also favourable before packaging.

 

[akx]

+1 on what Jase wrote. Making your own homebrew is really great, and doesn't have to be hard a or require expensive equipment. I would sometimes buy kegs from my local brewery of in between homebrew batches just to keep the brews flowing when feeling lazy.

Having a kegerator for serving and a second fridge for storage sounds like a good way to go.