Not Fermenting!

[hopping mad]

Hi everyone out there.

I recently started a bravarian lager using a dry larger yeast. the nights have been a little cold in melb, so i piched the yeast (without using a stater). leaving it inside the house there was no activity after two days, so i moved it to my shed and placed it on the concret to try and bring the temp down. Next few days? NOTHING!!
took temp reading at 15 deg cellsius. put it in my fridge to lower the temp again. its at 9 deg cell at the moment. NOTHING!! I'm sure the kit supplied a dry larger yeast, although i don't know exactly what sort.

question 1: Do you think my yeast sample was a dud? (i know i should of made a starter!)

Question 2: Can i save my wort?? what would happen if i got a liquid yeast and pitched that. would it work? and if so how would the yeast thats already in there affect the out come of my beer.

 

[normell]

Interesting name, very original. :blink: <_<
Just because the tin of concentrate says "Lager", does not necessarily mean that its a lager yeast thats supplied with it.
Most K&K tins don't have a true lager yeast at all, they have ale yeasts, so maybe you are trying to brew too cold. :blink:

Normell

 

[Darren]

Hi everyone out there.

I recently started a bravarian lager using a dry larger yeast. the nights have been a little cold in melb, so i piched the yeast (without using a stater). leaving it inside the house there was no activity after two days, so i moved it to my shed and placed it on the concret to try and bring the temp down. Next few days? NOTHING!!
took temp reading at 15 deg cellsius. put it in my fridge to lower the temp again. its at 9 deg cell at the moment. NOTHING!! I'm sure the kit supplied a dry larger yeast, although i don't know exactly what sort.

question 1: Do you think my yeast sample was a dud? (i know i should of made a starter!)

Question 2: Can i save my wort?? what would happen if i got a liquid yeast and pitched that. would it work? and if so how would the yeast thats already in there affect the out come of my beer.

[post="122491"][/post]​

Howdy Hopping Mad,
Lager yeasts at lager temps donot usually exhibit alot of activity. I would give it a "swirl" and let it go for two weeks.

cheers
Darren

 

[Hopeye]

Hi everyone out there.

I recently started a bravarian lager using a dry larger yeast. the nights have been a little cold in melb, so i piched the yeast (without using a stater). leaving it inside the house there was no activity after two days, so i moved it to my shed and placed it on the concret to try and bring the temp down. Next few days? NOTHING!!
took temp reading at 15 deg cellsius. put it in my fridge to lower the temp again. its at 9 deg cell at the moment. NOTHING!! I'm sure the kit supplied a dry larger yeast, although i don't know exactly what sort.

question 1: Do you think my yeast sample was a dud? (i know i should of made a starter!)

Question 2: Can i save my wort?? what would happen if i got a liquid yeast and pitched that. would it work? and if so how would the yeast thats already in there affect the out come of my beer.

[post="122491"][/post]​

Hi HM,

When did you happen to pitch the yeast ??

Did you happen to record the OG before you pitched the yeast ??

If you did record the OG, What is the current SG ???

IF SG is < OG, then everything's cool else warm it up and pitch more yeast and cross fingers.

If you didn't record the OG and don't know what the SG is then it's pretty hard to diagnose what the problem could be because the lid may not be on tightly enough or there might not be any water in the air lock or you might have tried to get fermentation going when it was too cold and need to warm the wort up (to start fermentation)(most likely as you haven't mentioned any foam (krausen) in the carboy). You might try warming it up to 18 degrees C to start fermentation and then drop the temp down, but, not knowing what actual yeast strain you are brewing with
that could cause a stuck fermentation.

Is this your first brew ??

 

[BruceL]

What Barvarian Lager was it?

I've seen it posted elsewhere that Coopers Bavarian and their Pilsner come with a lager yeast, presumably Saflager S-189 (not the more common S-23), did it have a P stamped next to useby date.

If its a dfferent Bavarian lager it probably came with an ale yeast.

Bruce

 

[hopping mad]

Hello again.
Thanks for the quick responses.

First of all, about the name hopping mad? I swear to you all I did not realise the a.h.b motto was were hopping mad." it was not until I completed my reg I realised my mistake. My first choice was monster mash but that was taken. So hello to monster mash!

This is not my first brew by a long shot, though I have never had problems with fermentation in the past and I have stayed clear of lagers until now.

So far as experience goes, I guess you could say I am a young brewer as my experimentation has only gone as far as adding hops to kits, and using liquid yeasts.

You will be pleased to know that whilst out in the shed investigating lines amongst other things, I noticed a bit of action in the airlock. It looks as though placing my fermenting vessel in the fridge was the ticket. I pitched the yeast about 4 days ago; I have never experienced a slow start like this. Normally i brew ales and i get a (violent) reaction within an hour or so.

This site is great, i can't belive how quick the response has been. i am no where near as knowledgeable as some of you, though i hope i will be able to provide help to some of you one day.

regards Kris.

p.s one more note about the name, can it be changed?? I don't like the idea that it looks like i've ripped it.

 

[Mr Bond]

P.M Dane or Doc thay are admin,and helpful.

 

[normell]

Hey HM, leave it as is.
Every time I log in I'll think of ya

Normell

 

[hopping mad]

To those interested.

The kit I used was ESB Bavarian Larger. The yeast supplied was w3470. Today there is no action at all. No froth, no crud forming on the vessel, NOTHING AT ALL.

I got another yeast sample today and will pitch it tomorrow. I've never had a dud yeast sample so hopefully all goes well.

Let you know how it pans out

Kris :super:

 

[normell]

What size was the "sample" of yeast, 11g or less
This from the fermentis site, makers of the Saf range of yeasts
To achieve the correct pitching rate use one sachet per 20 litres of wort for ales. Use one sachet for lager when fermenting at room temperature and two sachets for lager when fermenting cold e.g. 12C (due to the lower temperature and slower growth of lager strains).
So if you want to brew at low temps. you may need to use 2 sachets of yeast.


Normell

 

[Lindsay Dive]

What size was the "sample" of yeast, 11g or less
This from the fermentis site, makers of the Saf range of yeasts
To achieve the correct pitching rate use one sachet per 20 litres of wort for ales. Use one sachet for lager when fermenting at room temperature and two sachets for lager when fermenting cold e.g. 12C (due to the lower temperature and slower growth of lager strains).
So if you want to brew at low temps. you may need to use 2 sachets of yeast.


Normell

I had to carry out a search for this discussion as I had this in the back of my mind when using some w-34/70 yesterday.

I was given a 500 gram pack of w-34/70 by the owner of a BOP Brewery nearby who said that in his opinion the yeast was crap. I said thanks very much.
I must report as to what the pitching rates are that is printed on the pack. I like my lagers fermented at about 10 degrees I feel that this temperature gives you a much cleaner and crisper lager.
Fermentis recommends that for a 9 degrees fermentation you need between 200 - 300 grams of yeast per hectolitre. So let's go right in the middle at 250 grams per hectolitre. This works out at a massive 57.5 grams of yeast for a standard 23 litre brew. This is more than 5 sachets of the dried yeast.
Seeing as this was given to me for nothing, I used a conservative 100 grams for a 50 litre brew and after pitching the yeast yesterday afternoon the beer is fermenting at a rapid rate today and set on 10 degrees.
Why do they sell it in 11 gram sachets....got be buggered.

Regards,
Lindsay.

 

[wessmith]

Hi Lindsay,

The W34/70 yeast strain is one of the most widely used lager yeasts in the world! Your friends at the BOP must be doing something a bit wierd with the Fermentis version to call it crap - or more probably they have not rehydrated properly. We have also found with Sydney water that it needs a bit of zinc. We use 0.1mg/ltr of zinc chloride with great affect - pitched into the fermenter. We usually only pitch around the 100 to 120gm/100ltrsof rehydrated yeast into wort at 14.0C then bring the temp down gradually after 24hours to 10.0C. I use the Fermentis W34/70 here at the pilot brewery and in ALL our micro installations. It is a fabulous yeast.

Cheers,

Wes

What size was the "sample" of yeast, 11g or less
This from the fermentis site, makers of the Saf range of yeasts
To achieve the correct pitching rate use one sachet per 20 litres of wort for ales. Use one sachet for lager when fermenting at room temperature and two sachets for lager when fermenting cold e.g. 12C (due to the lower temperature and slower growth of lager strains).
So if you want to brew at low temps. you may need to use 2 sachets of yeast.


Normell

I had to carry out a search for this discussion as I had this in the back of my mind when using some w-34/70 yesterday.

I was given a 500 gram pack of w-34/70 by the owner of a BOP Brewery nearby who said that in his opinion the yeast was crap. I said thanks very much.
I must report as to what the pitching rates are that is printed on the pack. I like my lagers fermented at about 10 degrees I feel that this temperature gives you a much cleaner and crisper lager.
Fermentis recommends that for a 9 degrees fermentation you need between 200 - 300 grams of yeast per hectolitre. So let's go right in the middle at 250 grams per hectolitre. This works out at a massive 57.5 grams of yeast for a standard 23 litre brew. This is more than 5 sachets of the dried yeast.
Seeing as this was given to me for nothing, I used a conservative 100 grams for a 50 litre brew and after pitching the yeast yesterday afternoon the beer is fermenting at a rapid rate today and set on 10 degrees.
Why do they sell it in 11 gram sachets....got be buggered.

Regards,
Lindsay.

 

[mika]

100g of dried yeast for a brew ? If it's for free, cool. If you have to buy it, it would be cheaper to buy a vial or smackpack of liquid yeast and throw it in.
~$4 for 15g of dried yeast. ~$16 for the liquid yeast which from what I understand could be pitched complete, or you could split it and build it up for future brews.

~$40 of yeast for a brew...crazy ! :huh:

 

[wessmith]

Mika_Lika, its 100gms/100ltrs. Last time I looked that is 25gm/25ltrs - 2 sachets and that is what has been posted on this forum many, many times.

Wes

100g of dried yeast for a brew ? If it's for free, cool. If you have to buy it, it would be cheaper to buy a vial or smackpack of liquid yeast and throw it in.
~$4 for 15g of dried yeast. ~$16 for the liquid yeast which from what I understand could be pitched complete, or you could split it and build it up for future brews.

~$40 of yeast for a brew...crazy ! :huh:

 

[mika]

Was posting as you posted, my response was in reply to Lindsay's 60 odd grams of yeast per brew. Your pitching rate sounds alot more sane

 

[Lindsay Dive]

I hope I'm not stepping into a dangerous zone by attaching a PDF file from Fermentis...so here goes.
It clearly states that they recommend up to 200 - 300 grams per 100 litres.
View attachment SaflagerW_34_70_1_.pdf

 

[wessmith]

Gidday Lindsay,

That 200 - 300gm/HL pitching rate is when you actually pitch at 9.0C. When you pitch at 14.0C, 100 or so is fine. As a general rule of thumb, the lower the pitching temp, the higher the cell count needed. And its the same of course with liquid yeasts.

Wes

I hope I'm not stepping into a dangerous zone by attaching a PDF file from Fermentis...so here goes.
It clearly states that they recommend up to 200 - 300 grams per 100 litres.
View attachment 9347

 

[Lindsay Dive]

Hi Wes,

That's why I used 100 grams for 50 litres. Pitched at 10 degrees.

You know what I think is funny, the bloke bought a whole box of the w-34/70..... 20 X 500 grams.

Regards,
Lindsay.

 

[mika]

Wes...so if you were using a liquid yeast and say you've built up a starter for it, which I guess with out getting all technical about it you won't know how much yeast is in your starter (in the situation where you're a tight ar$e and have built up several samples from the one packet).
How do you determine how much starter you should throw in ?

 

[Trough Lolly]

...snip...
I was given a 500 gram pack of w-34/70 by the owner of a BOP Brewery nearby who said that in his opinion the yeast was crap. I said thanks very much.
I must report as to what the pitching rates are that is printed on the pack. I like my lagers fermented at about 10 degrees I feel that this temperature gives you a much cleaner and crisper lager.
Fermentis recommends that for a 9 degrees fermentation you need between 200 - 300 grams of yeast per hectolitre. So let's go right in the middle at 250 grams per hectolitre. This works out at a massive 57.5 grams of yeast for a standard 23 litre brew. This is more than 5 sachets of the dried yeast.
Seeing as this was given to me for nothing, I used a conservative 100 grams for a 50 litre brew and after pitching the yeast yesterday afternoon the beer is fermenting at a rapid rate today and set on 10 degrees.
Why do they sell it in 11 gram sachets....got be buggered.

Regards,
Lindsay.

W34/70 is crap, eh?! Well then tell it to the thousands of brewers and hundreds of breweries throughout the world who are making excellent, crisp and refreshing lagers every day... <_<
500g of this strain would do me for ages! The dry yeast has built in reserves of Trehalose and Glycogen to allow it to readily get to work when it's added to water - rehydration is a good move to make when you want to reconstitute dry W34/70 yeast cells, but that doesn't imply that you cannot simply pitch direct into wort.
I personally prefer to proof my yeast with rehydration or building up an active viable starter, especially when I'm using liquid lager yeast strains. I have successfully fermented 23L batches of lager with one 11g sachet of W34/70 - how? Stepped up starters...usually around 2L in volume.
I won't echo Wes's excellent advice so far in this thread, but I will say that lager strains do take more care and effort, generally speaking, when you compare this yeast to the more common strains of ale yeast that happily ferment at around room temps / 19C. But the rewards are there if you are prepared to put in a bit more care and attention to temperature control when fermenting lagers. And as I've mentioned on many a previous lager fermenting post - you need to be patient with lager yeast, compared to ale strains, it's like brewing in slow motion!! Allow 2 weeks for primary, at least that again for secondary and I always lager the kegs for at least 3 months before pouring the first glass of the delightful stuff!! And whilst waiting, you can always have a couple of pils at the Schwartz Brewery!! B)

Cheers,
TL