No chill APA recipe advice for non craft drinkers

[husky]

I haven't no chilled for many years and I'm about to fire up the new brewery for a 100L batch to supply at my old man's 60th in November. It needs to be reasonably basic but still tasty to suit the masses. Usually the first comment to my home brews is geez it's bitter, I think this is the only way regular people know how to describe beer so I'm thinking nice and malty with low bittering. I'm thinking a 110L end of boil batch that will be split into 5 x cubes each with the same malt bill and 15IBU bittering charge of magnum. Each cube then cube hopped for a further 20IBU's with different varieties to total 35IBU to please the regular VB/draught drinkers. My initial thoughts on the cube hops were:
Keg 1 - Amarillo 10IBU Centennial 10IBU
Keg 2 - Citra 20IBU
Keg 3 - Galaxy 20IBU not sure on this one as normally I Galaxy when chilling straight up
Keg 4 - Mosaic 10IBU Simcoe 10IBU
Keg 5 - Citra 5IBU Centennial 5IBU Mosaic 5IBU Galaxy 5IBU

Grain will be lots of vienna and pils with some biscuit and melanoidin.
Interested on thoughts from those who regularly no chill on the hopping additions, in BS I have used a 20min boil addition to estimate the IBU's from the cube hops which is what I used to do years ago, is this still how it's done or are there new schools of thought on this?
Normally I go for 5IBU @ 60 then the rest from 0 and whirlpool but going back to no chill has me nervous about relying on all the IBU's from late, does the 10/15IBU split seem ok or can it be safely shifted to more later when no chilling?

Also the malt bill, may seem a bit random but I have a **** tonne of vienna to clear out and it's just yum so I think it should be ok but open to suggestions.
Approx recipe for keg 1 below:

 

[Mardoo]

For APA's I go for 50% of the IBU's from a 60-minute addition of buttering hops, 50% from cube hop additions. For IPA's, 1/3 at 60, 2/3 in the cube.

 

[Rocker1986]

Beersmith has a no-chill factor thingy in it now. I think it's in the equipment profile that you use for the particular recipe being brewed. I don't use it myself though, I've been no-chilling and using BS for about 5 years, long before they introduced that feature, so I just keep constructing my recipes how I've always done it as they turn out as expected that way.

Personally I wouldn't consider a cube hop the same as a 20 minute boil in terms of IBUs, but I suppose it depends on the temperature of the wort when it goes into the cube as well. In any case, hops going into sub 100C wort that is dropping further all the time aren't going to give the same bitterness/flavor profile as hops that were boiled for 20 minutes.

 

[fungrel]

Vienna is great, love it, but looking at the recipe I think you'll get most of that 'harsh bitterness' from large amounts of melanoiden and victory.

Every time I add those grains in those amounts to a beer, and the masses drink it, they assume it's from the hops and not the malt. Food for thought.

I generally do 1/3 at 60min and 2/3 into the cube just to make things easier.

 

[manticle]

Looks good and you'll be damned either way probably but if you are aiming to please that many palates, a very simple, clean malt bill and overall bittering under 30 is probably the way forward. Look at the commercial pales and goldens that get a guernsey among average palate drinkers. SW pacific, squires golden, john boston, yenda pale. Little creatures and mountain goat are the only ones I reckon would crack 30+.

 

[Schikitar]

If you go into the cubes at or below 79 degrees then you won't add any bitterness, just flavour and aroma.. at least that's my limited understanding! I tend to drop to a cube-hop after 20-30 mins of standing in the kettle, and that's still pushing 85-90 degrees, at the risk of infection I don't want it to get too low in temp - though my cube is fully cleaned and sanitised. I think the ratios the guys mentioned above sound pretty good, I've focused on the cube and dry hops with good success so far (and my mates who don't like bitter beers haven't complained yet)!

 

[mtb]

60-minute addition of buttering hops

Maybe that explains all the diacetyl I got in that IPA once. I can't believe it's not buttering hops!

 

[captain crumpet]

Just make kolsch and they will regard you as an ascended being

 

[husky]

For APA's I go for 50% of the IBU's from a 60-minute addition of buttering hops, 50% from cube hop additions. For IPA's, 1/3 at 60, 2/3 in the cube.

How are you calculating your cube IBU's?

 

[husky]

Taken the above advice on board and reduced melanoidin and biscuit to 2% each. Also added some MO as pils malt not in stock as per my BS inventory so need to go grab a sack of MO this week.
Changed hop schedule for 15IBU @ 60 and 15IBU in the cube.
For cube IBU's I have used a 20min WP addition which in BS has just applied a 50% utilisation(doubled the hop qty for the same IBU). What is everyone else using for cube IBU calcs? I'm guessing it will go into the cubes at 90-95 deg and cool down in the ambient air.

Hop varieties unchanged
Cube 1 - Amarillo 7.5IBU Centennial 7.5IBU
Cube 2 - Citra 15IBU
Cube 3 - Galaxy 15IBU not sure on this one as normally I Galaxy when chilling straight up
Cube 4 - Mosaic 7.5IBU Simcoe 7.5IBU
Cube 5 - Citra 5IBU Centennial 5IBU Mosaic 5IBU Galaxy 5IBU

 

[Mardoo]

How are you calculating your cube IBU's?

Most folks I know use the Steep/Whirlpool function in the dropdown menu (bottom left) of the hop addition window in Beersmith. I used a 20 minute steep for a long time, but I've recently switched to a 15 minute steep. I feel like the results I'm getting from a 15-minute steep are closer to what I envision.

 

[pirateagenda]

Just make kolsch and they will regard you as an ascended being

was going to suggest that with some POR cube hops to appease the megaswillers

 

[captain crumpet]

was going to suggest that with some POR cube hops to appease the megaswillers

Topaz and ella would make it close to a furphy