No Chil, No Air, No Cube

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CAN BREWER

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Hi all very new to all grain (2 under my belt). At the moment i don't have a chiller or cube so after the boil
i whirlpool wait 10mins & drain into fermenter let cool over night add yeast without airating, yeast takes a bit longer to start but seems fine.

My question is would the head space in the fermenter & the lag time for the yeast to start cause any issues?

All smell & taste tests seem fine

Thanks for your help

CB
 
Not aerating leaves you very prone to infection (due to the yeast lag time) and can stress the yeast into producing excessive esters, acetaldehyde (cider) and other nasties. Aeration is easy to do, doesn't require any extra equipment (the coopers/tooheys spoon/paddle works for me) and gives you better results.

In the past where I have no-chilled in the kettle (with headspace) I have not had any oxidation issues.
 
Head space is not a problem if fermenting straight away - I've only stored full cubes for any length of time though

From what I've read with aeration dry yeast shouldn't need it but liquid does

I aerate all my worts by tipping it into the fermenter, or running the wort from a height via the attached tap into a fermenter

Causes lots of splashing + foam

There is that discussion re: using oil in place of aeration which seems to be gaining a little momentum too

Cheers
 
oil?

:huh:

got a link?

cheers
 
Brewing beer is a string of steps and processes. Each of these steps has a general set of rules. The aim at the end is to have the best beer you can produce using your setup and your knowledge.

These rules or guidelines come to us from previous brewers' experience and from commercial best practises.

Usually we follow these guidelines, but due to gear or knowledge limitations we can also break the rules, so long as we know the risks.

At every stage we aim to provide the best conditions for the best beer.

So we mash at the right temp, step up to the right rests, look at pH, crush correctly, boil correctly, sanitise, clean etc.

The no chill folks have worked out strict guidelines that must be followed for long term keeping, or your wort will be infected.

Your process of drain hot wort to fermenter, slow chill in a fermenter, no aeration and long lag time does have many problems. You will produce beer, but probably not the best beer.

Hot wort splashing into the fermenter may cause hot side aeration, which means the long term stability of you brew may suffer. The taste deteriorates rapidly. First the hops character fades, then the malt fades.

Slow chill doesn't promote good cold break formation and you may have DMS forming with condensation in the fermenter.

Lack of aeration means poor yeast health.

Long lag means there is a yeast problem. When your brew takes a long time to take off, it is at this stage most vulnerable to infection.

The large headspace in the fermenter is probably the least of your worries. If you use the fermenter to no chill overnight and pitch the next morning, the headspace is not an issue. With no chill where the wort is kept for more than a few days, it is essential that the headspace is zero.

Your beer will probably be fine but any of the above defects may raise it's nasty head. If there are any brew demonstrations in your area, go along and watch what they do and ask why.
 
Thanks for the replys next brew i will definatly give it a stir b4 adding yeast & start saving for a imersion chiller.

CB
 
i'd say it needs a bit more than just a stir CB. i do the same as cortez and pour from one fermenter into another from a hight via the tap. even that is supposedly not enough but it is much better than doing nothing at all.

oh i also no-chill overnight in the fermenter, not the best practice but no problems here.
 
Thanks for the replys next brew i will definatly give it a stir b4 adding yeast & start saving for a imersion chiller.

CB

If you can't afford a chiller, you can just add a bag of ice to your fermenter. I did this for years when I was partial mashing and never got an infection. Drain the hot wort to the fermenter with heat resistent tubing, to avoid hot-side aeration. Put the fermenter into a laundry sink or bathtub and replace the water a couple of times to cool the wort, then throw the ice in and it should get it down to pitching temp. Just remember to adjust your recipe for the ice addition so your final volumes work out.

Cheers - Snow
 
Slow chill doesn't promote good cold break formation and you may have DMS forming with condensation in the fermenter.

The large headspace in the fermenter is probably the least of your worries. If you use the fermenter to no chill overnight and pitch the next morning, the headspace is not an issue. With no chill where the wort is kept for more than a few days, it is essential that the headspace is zero.

I want to brew a Pilsner and no chill into cube and googled the above.

I've asked if anyone no-chill lagers and there was a few in the no chill thread.
IF I would use mainly pale lager/Pilsner malt and have a rigorous boil and use the whirl pool method with kettle fining at 15 minutes from end.
Put it straight into cube and and no oxygen.

Is it correct to presume that no further DMS production will occur?
MAtti :unsure:
 
No chill all my lagers Matti

No DMS here

Just make sure you do a 90min boil

Kabooby :)
 
Cheers.
Kabooby.
I was hoping to brew on Monday but can't afford yeast yet.
I'll attempt to brew a descent one to so it can replace the dud in the swap LOL
 
These rules or guidelines come to us from previous brewers' experience and from commercial best practises.

Hot wort splashing into the fermenter may cause hot side aeration, which means the long term stability of you brew may suffer. The taste deteriorates rapidly. First the hops character fades, then the malt fades.

Slow chill doesn't promote good cold break formation and you may have DMS forming with condensation in the fermenter.

Hot Side Aeration is not an issue post boil. HSA requires an enzyme to oxidize the pre-boil wort. Technically we all get it as our mash water and grains have O2 in them and the enzyme is present. Once the temp of the wort is raised above I believe it is 140 deg. then the enzyme is denatured and the threat is over. I can dig up the pod cast where this is discussed along with a test of aerating hot wort and the effects. The interesting part of the test is the test batch was an awful beer and they did not like any of it.

The cold break does happen just smaller particle size. DMS is only a problem with Pilsner malts and short boils. Some yeast produce DMS. Active fermentation will blow it off like a boil will.

As to the original question I would say aerating the wort would improve your beer. Get some cubes and save the $ spent on a chiller for other equipment.
 
Can brewer,

If you are using dried yeast, your current proceedures should be fine. i often do exactly the same & i NEVER aerate the wort. My no chilled brews have had longevity issues, but if consuming within a few months all has been good.
If using liquid yeasts though, I'd recommend aeration of some form.

cheers Ross
 
Re aeration and liquid yeast:

I've read that if you are producing a starter, aeration is more important during starter preparation than in the actual wort. As long as you have a well aerated started, the yeast has gone through the phases it needs oxygen and by the time you pitch into your wort, it no longer needs oxygen, hence no need to aerate your wort.

Can anyone confirm?

Andrew
 
If your slowly cooling your wort, for protection against infection the last thing you want is aeration until just prior to pitching when using Liquid Yeast. After boiling the wort will be basically oxygen free, let it cool to pitching temp then aerate prior to pitching if using Liquid Yeast, if using dried no need to aerate.

Screwy
 
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