Newbie chill question

[farmerdave]

I've very recently tried my first AG and tried the cube method in an ice bath to chill, but I must have introduced an infection somewhere along the way, and pretty much need to dump this brew and try again. But it got me thinking about chilling techniques, and I would like to ask for any (and all) reasons why the following is a good/bad idea.

I thought about boiling some water (between 4-5 litres) the night before a brew and then freezing in sealed sterilised containers. I plan to add this to the wort to provide the chill necessary to then pitch the yeast. I've even got a formula for the final temperature based on volume and initial temperature of the wort.

So, this will obviously have an effect on starting gravity and flavour, but could this be compensated for by changing the initial ingredients?

I'm ready to be shot down here!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Not as silly as it sounds

you will need to do one of two things.

1. Adjust your ingrediants to allow for a larger final volume. Ie it would go from 22 lt to 26-27lt once the ice melted.

2. Keep the same amount of ingrediants but only fill you kettle from the mash tun to 4-5ltr less than 22lt.

I can see both methods may affect eff.

 

[farmerdave]

Thanks for that, I was thinking of boiling around 18L and then bringing it up to about 23 with the ice blocks.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You may loose a few SG points as you wont get your final runnings from the tun. I would still keep your final runings to use for making yeasy starters

Take your SG reading once your ice has melted to determine your final eff. That way you have can make adjustments next brew

 

[user 25501]

I trust you've looked at "No Chill" & "Slow Chill" methods?
I'm new at this too but I just couldn't be bothered with the additional effort required in chilling to get a brew to pitching temp.

 

[GalBrew]

I've very recently tried my first AG and tried the cube method in an ice bath to chill, but I must have introduced an infection somewhere along the way, and pretty much need to dump this brew and try again. But it got me thinking about chilling techniques, and I would like to ask for any (and all) reasons why the following is a good/bad idea.

I thought about boiling some water (between 4-5 litres) the night before a brew and then freezing in sealed sterilised containers. I plan to add this to the wort to provide the chill necessary to then pitch the yeast. I've even got a formula for the final temperature based on volume and initial temperature of the wort.

So, this will obviously have an effect on starting gravity and flavour, but could this be compensated for by changing the initial ingredients?

I'm ready to be shot down here!

Perhaps part of the reason you got an infection in the cube is that you put it in an ice bath? Leave it to cool by itself leaving the maximum time in cube over pasteurization temps to reduce the number of nasties in the wort as much as possible. This is how I do it and have never had an infection in the cube. I have even kept a cube for around 6 months and it was still sucked in at the sides.

 

[farmerdave]

The most likely place the infection came from was the yeast starter, I think. I was expecting the ice bath to cool the cube much quicker than it actually did, and I created the yeast starter far too early. It ended up sitting around for about an hour before I added it! Plus, I had covered it with cling wrap but it foamed out all over the place anyway.

I took some decent notes during that brew, and there were several places where my timing and methods could dramatically be improved. This post was really more of a hypothetical, and I reckon I will give at least one try using this method, and I'll reply once I've tried the result.

 

[Dunkelbrau]

I trust you've looked at "No Chill" & "Slow Chill" methods?
I'm new at this too but I just couldn't be bothered with the additional effort required in chilling to get a brew to pitching temp.

You mean the time it takes to drain the kettle?

I hook up my chiller while the kettle is boiling.. Run it through a plate chiller straigh into the fermenter at pitching temps! You have to drain the kettle either way.. Cleaning is a breeze, just run PBW backwards via gravity from a cleaning container and rinse.. Takes all of five mins post chilling.

Edit: Not bagging no-chill, just applying the same logic ;-)

 

[mash head]

There is nothing wrong with your idea. You will just need to adjust your recipe to cover for the additional water.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is nothing wrong with your idea. You will just need to adjust your recipe to cover for the additional water.

As has been mentioned

 

[farmerdave]

You mean the time it takes to drain the kettle?

I hook up my chiller while the kettle is boiling.. Run it through a plate chiller straigh into the fermenter at pitching temps! You have to drain the kettle either way.. Cleaning is a breeze, just run PBW backwards via gravity from a cleaning container and rinse.. Takes all of five mins post chilling.

Edit: Not bagging no-chill, just applying the same logic ;-)

One day I'll invest in equipment such as that, but for now my "kettle" has no tap, it's nothing more than a really large pot. To drain, I either need a siphon or to grab it by the handles and pour! I'd never heard of a plate chiller, looks great! I've never really liked the idea of using a copper coil with tap water running through it. It seems like too much water is used to produce 23L of beer. I've got rainwater tanks which I could use, and even pump the water back in the top, but that would require spending on a pump. Plus, it would mean chilling near the tank, which for me is a long way outdoors.

 

[mash head]

As has been mentioned

Yes sorry stu. I was going to go into more detail about the way I do doubles by brewing a 50-60 litre recipe in my kettle which usually ends up with 40lts in it after the boil and just add the extra water at the end, but I didn't really want to leave my self open to too much critisizm so left it there. Much the same really.

 

[squirt in the turns]

One day I'll invest in equipment such as that, but for now my "kettle" has no tap, it's nothing more than a really large pot. To drain, I either need a siphon or to grab it by the handles and pour! I'd never heard of a plate chiller, looks great! I've never really liked the idea of using a copper coil with tap water running through it. It seems like too much water is used to produce 23L of beer. I've got rainwater tanks which I could use, and even pump the water back in the top, but that would require spending on a pump. Plus, it would mean chilling near the tank, which for me is a long way outdoors.

My 2c: until you can chill properly (plate chiller, immersion chiller, whatever), just no-chill (no trying to chill in an ice bath or pool anything - just let it cool down by itself). It works great, so much less stuffing around than making giant blocks of sterile ice. I subscribe to the mentality that if you're going to chill, you want to knock as much heat out ASAP. If you're no-chilling, it doesn't really matter how long the wort stays hot for (to an extent, longer is better as the cube and wort are more thoroughly sterilised). Any method that falls between these 2 options is usually a compromise that involves inconvenience, risk, or both.

I have a plate chiller and still no-chill at least half of my batches, just for convenience.

For when you want to chill using your tank water:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BILGE-PUMP-12V-SUBMERSIBLE-WATER-PUMP-750GPH-FISHING-BOAT-MARINE-CARAVAN-CAMPING-/231030907003?pt=AU_Boat_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35ca83e07b&_uhb=1 - cheap as!

And you can just a long hose (obviously I don't know how far away your tanks are), but you might be surprised how powerful those little bilge pumps are.