New to home brewing and a little confused

[TonyF]

No tap, just a bung. Also no ice was used to achieve those temps, so it could be driven lower.

Ok.. this might be a silly question, how'd you get the beer out without a tap?. Did you use a siphon to put it into another vessel for bottling?

 

[TonyF]

If you are looking for a large SS pot then Big W have these https://www.bigw.com.au/product/smart-value-19-litre-stock-pot/p/WCC100000000011544/ for $20

Looks like just the ticket for my 23L fermentor! Thanks Wobbly!
Oh and the jerry can has the nice big "2" in the triangle which I'm led to believe mean HDPE!

 

[superstock]

Ok.. this might be a silly question, how'd you get the beer out without a tap?. Did you use a siphon to put it into another vessel for bottling?

Siphon, with bottler on the end of the tube.

 

[contrarian]

Thanks so much for all the info Wobbly you're an absolute champ! :icon_cheers:

i picked up a 20L plastic jerry can from Bunnings which I'll sanitise later with everything else, i'll put 20L of water into my fermenter overnight (to let the chlorine out) which I'll transfer to the jerry can in the morning (and whack some in the fridge as my "cold water backup") then I'll go with your great instructions from there.

I picked up a large'ish tub which i can use to keep the temperatures down if it gets too hot during the week.

Picked up some Star-San from the LHBS. While there picked up some Wheat Malt. The nice bloke there told me to add this to my Sheaf Wheat malt extract with half of my LDME and throw the other half of my LDME and the Morgan's Body Blend into the Lager malt extract (the one I'll be attempting tomorrow).

Thanks again to you all for the invaluable information!

:beerbang:

contrarian.. I'm sure in the not too distant future there'll be a saison in there.. any idea where I can get a nice recipe that uses a can of liquid malt extract (I'm gonna stick with those until I have a few under my belt)?

Saison needs to be simple so I would get a Pilsner or lager can and a kilo of LDME and that's it. Saisons are yeast driven so keep the base as simple as possible and let the yeast do the talking.

That said I haven't brewed a lot in a while so others might have better suggestions.

 

[TonyF]

Siphon, with bottler on the end of the tube.

Brew corner 091.jpg

I guess you gotta be careful not to suck up crap at the bottom of the fermenter?

 

[TonyF]

Saison needs to be simple so I would get a Pilsner or lager can and a kilo of LDME and that's it. Saisons are yeast driven so keep the base as simple as possible and let the yeast do the talking.

That said I haven't brewed a lot in a while so others might have better suggestions.

Bugger... I have a lager can from the kit and a kilo of LDME... should of picked up the right yeast and done a saison tomorrow!

Thanks contrarian!

 

[superstock]

I guess you gotta be careful not to suck up crap at the bottom of the fermenter?

Nope that 's what the red tip is for, picks up about 19mm above the floor, and you just tilt to get all but about 1/2 litre.

 

[butisitart]

my first hbs guy answered my concerns about chlorine thus -
if it doesn't bother you in your drinking water, it's not going to affect your beer. simple.
cleaning bottles and soaking tired brewing gear - for first use, napisan. it runs on sodium percarbonate, same as the really expensive especially formulated brew cleaners.
after you drink bottled brew, rinse well under tap (with chlorine if you have to). no need to wash again.
sanitising - starsan only needs enough drops of it to make a froth when agitated. and that ain't much at all. no rinse. easy as. never tasted a brew and thought 'lingering palate of starsan' or 'clean malt enhanced by chlorine'. or 'pleasant bouquet of napisan'.
brewing should be simple fun, not surgical ward scrub-out stress.
going from the basic cans to steeping grains and a little steeped hops to partial mash to all-grain is what will lift your game.

for fermenting temp, brissy is probably no easier than perth. i don't have refrigerator brewing, so lager is out. every home is different, and i ferment in the broom cupboard right in the middle of the apartment. pretty stable all year round. i do most brews from feb (last weekend, in fact) to early nov and then have a holiday with enough to tide me over until feb. my 800 bottle cellar is in the garage, under the apartment block and again pretty stable for temperature. so yeah - a case of adapting to your surrounds. wife is not happy with vacum cleaner wedged between her hanging frocks but she love me anyway, apparently.

 

[Weizguy]

Have just been looking into that Spookism .... only problem is... I want to start NOW! not when I find a fridge (I don't even know if i can wait the 15-20 days the instructions indicate the process will take)

Do most people go for a bar fridge or full sized?

In home brewing, there is often no "most people" option, as we're all unique and require (and acquire) what works for us and our individual set-ups.
That's why we have AHB and helpful helpers to help us with questions.

Most people start with what will fit their brew-space, and what they can afford, and adjust as finances and experience allow them to determine their required direction, or can afford the equipment they want.

If you're into this hobby for some time, you will find that your brewery will undergo a number of major do-overs as you upgrade for size/and or quality equipment.

Welcome to the obsession. Oops, was certain I typed something else there.

 

[TonyF]

Thanks all for your help and advice! Got my first batch sitting in the laundry as we speak (got it all in yesterday 5pm)..

Started with 1Kg of Morgans Body Blend and 408g of a 1kg bag (which turned out to be 880g.. *******s!) of LDME from the LHBS... mixed in the can of lager and then threw the lot into the fementer. Had a starting gravity of 1047.

Forgot to get some water in the fridge to get a cooler wort so waited about 2 hours for the temp to drop from about 28C... Got tired of waiting and ran to the servo to get ice, threw the fermenter in an ice bath and got it eventually down to about 18C before pitching the yeast. it's been sitting between 16 and 22 most the time mostly around 18-20, which is when I'll throw in some more ice or a bottle with frozen water.

I totally filled the airlock with vodka... after doing further research it sounds like I overfilled it so emptied half of it out. There isn't any bubbling to speak of, but I can see it's pushing the vodka along in the airlock and there's a smell of yeast in the laundry.

Won't check the gravity again until Thursday giving it the suggested 5days to ferment.

Will post an update when we get there

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Roosterboy]

You're not wrong about trying to keep everything sanitised in regard to boiling your water, the problem is
boiling can change the composition slightly and reduce dissolved oxygen needed for yeast growth.
The longer you leave it after boiling the more likely contamination. Unless you put it in closed containers
and cool them off in a ice bath. Consider at least a pasteurising your water , don't just add cold water
from a tap.I know alot of brewers do it and if your brewing high alcohol beers , high IBU (lots of hops)
or pitching lots of yeast you may not notice it but try brewing a commercial(bland beer) clone they won't work.
With craft beers your trying to keep the good yeast at high enough levels to out-compete contaminants.
It's easier to cool smaller volumes so think about using a 15-20 L fermenter for small batches. I use these
for lagers so I can fit them in a medium sized fridge.
If using boiled water shake the hell out of it in the fermenter before adding yeast.
Commercial breweries don't do things they don't need to but they filter (take out bacteria and yeast) their water
and many that make beers with less flavour pasteurise them at the end.
They also use acid sanitisers , like star san.

 

[butisitart]

Started with 1Kg of Morgans Body Blend and 408g of a 1kg bag (which turned out to be 880g.. *******s!) of LDME from the LHBS... ............

I totally filled the airlock with vodka... after doing further research it sounds like I overfilled it so emptied half of it out. There isn't any bubbling to speak of, but I can see it's pushing the vodka along in the airlock and there's a smell of yeast in the laundry.

Won't check the gravity again until Thursday giving it the suggested 5days to ferment.

point 1 - when i used to weigh stuff, every hbs loads full weight and a few extra grams cos every brewer has got a set of scales to check it. so either your hbs is a half witted drop kick or your scales are out. if your scales are good, go to a proper hbs.

point 2 - vodka??? you're supposed to drink it - not throw it down an airlock. airlock works like this - yeast creatures pass wind and push their bum vapours through airlock for home brewer to sniff and say 'cool - that smells really good'. nothing pushes air into the fermenter through an airlock except an occasional suck on a freezing cold night when everything's contracting faster than your little friends can fart against it.,,.. so you only need water in the airlock. a sniff slipping through on a freezing night is no more dangerous than any air that might have gotten into the fermenter while you were putting the lid on it and loading up the airlock.

pont 3 - beware the 5 day to ferment. that's only a guide, and not a very good one. there's plenty of advice around forum on how to check if your beer has fermented, often around gravity not changing for 2-3 days, denoting a cessation of conversion activity. my personal rule of thumb is 7 days (coincides with the weekend) minimum. if i ferment for 7 days, i don't age it too much as it could still be fermenting. fermenting in the bottle cos you've dragged the brew out of the fermenter too early is the major cause of exploding bottles. it's still expanding but there's no airlock to relieve the pressure.
if i want to age the beer out more than 6-8 weeks, it ferments for 14 days, coinciding with the next weekend. again, pretty simple. occasionally i'll do a big alcohol beer and it ferments for 3 weeks. and if it's in the fermenter with an airlock and reasonable temperature range, then there's no great likelihood that something bad's going to happen.

ps on the scales - electronic scales need to be on a hard surface. if your scales are on a tea-towel on the bench, they'll read lighter than they should.

 

[TonyF]

Wanted to check my scale so weighed out 1L of water.... 1002gm. Also checked the weights between my digital scales and my old analogue scales of various items (some of a known weight) and they pretty much agree with each other. I'd say the problem was more likely at the HBS.

The vodka was a suggestion I read somewhere on a forum (maybe AHS?) where people said they put vodka, some used no rinse sanitiser in their air lock in case the liquid got sucked back into the fermenter. Said that vodka wouldn't harbour bacteria and wouldn't affect the taste of the beer if it got sucked back in. I had already decided to pop some vodka in there when I read that

I'll definitely be sure to measure the gravity looking for no change between 2-3 days before deciding to bottle. Thought that the best bet would be to leave it alone until the day of or day before the "suggested 5 day" mark.

Thanks for the suggestions!

PS I'm already thinking ahead to the next batch ... Les the Weizguy was right! Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!

 

[TonyF]

Had no airlock activity and a very small amount of foaming. Found that the airlock needed to sit all the way down in the grommet as it was leaking past if just the stem was going through the grommet (it had to go all the way down to where it branches out). Once i got it fitting nice and snug (last night - Sunday) it started bubbling away quite rapidly. Woke up this morning to find the bubbling had pretty much stopped and it appears through the lid that what little foam we had is receding. I've managed to pretty much keep the beer at between 17/18 - 20.

I'm still going to wait until the 5th day (Thursday) before taking a hydrometer reading as I heard it won't hurt the beer.

Doest it sound like the fermentation process has stalled/stopped and is this "normal" after less than about 36 hours? Should I be concerned or save the concern until I have taken the hydrometer reading on Thursday arvo?

 

[butisitart]

a 36hr ferment is unusual, but not abnormal. a good eye gauge on if it is unusual or abnormal is to see how violent your yeastie eruptions were. there'll be a brown ring of dried something around the inside of the fermenter above the krausen. if it's a big thick brown line 10-15cm deep, then your yeasties have been having a real party and it may well have fermented through pretty quickly. it will be still fermenting a little, but the initial burst is over. if there is bugger all brown stuff ringed around the fermenter and it's stopped bubbling and the lid is sealed down properly onto the fermenter, then there's a good chance your yeast hasn't got a grip on it at all. maybe old or tired yeast, or not much oxygen in the wort.
if you tipped water into your fermenter from a great height and caused tons of air bubbles and seriously oxygenated the krausen, then oxygen is not the problem.if you didn't do that, then i would consider beating the crap out of your krausen to get some oxygen in there. nextly, a second dose of yeast might not go astray. but if you've got a healthy ring of grime caked proud and high around the top of the krausen mark, all is probably ok. it is summer after all, and that can cause a fast ferment.

and if you MUST throw vodka down your airlock, at least have the decency to invite me over to clean it for you :blink:

 

[TonyF]

Weird... dunno if it's because I haven't been throwing frozen water bottles in there or what not, but when I went to check on it again I'm getting bubbling out the airlock... not as much as before but maybe once every 15s or so. I guess this shows it's obviously still fermenting. The temp is now showing 18-20 (both are "lit up" on the stick on thermometer) and prior to that it was probably more a little 16 and mostly 18.

The foam is still on top... it's not very thick I'd say no more than about 1.5-2cm and it's very clean whitish looking but there are obvious dark marks on the edge of the fermenter.

This is almost as bad as waiting for your first child to be delivered!

I probably stress too much.

buisitart.... come on over... you can have the whole bottle if you clean and sanitise my brewing gear after (after I refill the airlock that is hehehe)

 

[evoo4u]

Had no airlock activity and a very small amount of foaming. Found that the airlock needed to sit all the way down in the grommet as it was leaking past if just the stem was going through the grommet (it had to go all the way down to where it branches out). Once i got it fitting nice and snug (last night - Sunday) it started bubbling away quite rapidly.

G'day Tony

In all the years I've been doing K & Ks, I've always believed a good fitting airlock was essential to keep the invading hordes of nasties from infiltrating the wort, the sneaky little *****!

BUT, about two years ago, I got one of Cooper's new designs (with the removable krausen collar and the easy-clean tap) and no provision for an airlock at all. It's been all good! While it's not crystal clear, just a little bit milky looking, you can see what's going on inside - the krausen rising (occasionally erupting if it's a big beer), the astonishing convective activity within the wort when it's at full bore, and then when it's all settled down, you can look at the surface of the brew to see when it's all calm, and you can take your first SG reading - all without removing the lid.

I believe the idea of the krausen collar is that when the krausen initially subsides, you can lift the lid, remove the collar (easier to clean when the krausen ring is fresh) and refit the lid. Because there's still fermentation occurring, there's still CO2 being generated to force the air out through the not-so-tight fitting lid.

So not having to bother with an airlock is great, and the increased airspace with the krausen collar in place means no more overflows to clean up, as used to happen with monotonous regularity with the old FVs.

See - your brewing could be getting cheaper by not having to buy Vodka .

 

[TonyF]

LOL... I have a feeling that nobody likes to see wasted vodka :lol: :lol: ... I could probably keep the vodka and just throw Star-San in there.

I love my airlock though... you know what they say about people with simple minds.... "Duh... look at da pretty bubbles". I'll pbly get a second fermenter so I can have more than 1 batch going at a time and will need some new PET bottles to go with that fermenter so might look at the Coopers one.

This beer making process is so baffling.... my temp is now showing pretty much 20 (as I said I've stopped putting ice bottles in the water bath) and it's bubbling like it was late last night (maybe once every 1-2s). Maybe this beer's gonna be awesome cos the yeast are night time party animals (then again maybe the little *******s will consume all the alcohol they produce)?

Wonder if i should start putting the ice blocks back in the water bath to get the temps back down again............

 

[evoo4u]

Wonder if i should start putting the ice blocks back in the water bath to get the temps back down again............

I'd maintain the ideal temperature for at least five days. Bit of a pain having to use ice blocks/frozen water bottles etc, but keeping the yeast happy is worthwhile.

No problem down the track with a temp controlled fridge of course. My fridge is an old (1970's) Polish made bar fridge - still going strong. With the plastic door lining replaced by a flat sheet of galvanised steel, there's JUST enough room for the fermenter between the door lining and the motor 'hump' at the back. Newer bar fridges tend to be just too small, so if you're looking to acquire a fridge at some stage, you might need to look for a smaller 'normal' fridge, and pair it up with an external thermostat like the STC-1000.

 

[TonyF]

I'd maintain the ideal temperature for at least five days. Bit of a pain having to use ice blocks/frozen water bottles etc, but keeping the yeast happy is worthwhile.

What constitutes "ideal" though? The instructions on the can (22-27C I think it was) seem opposite to the advice of most home brewers, which is 18C or under if I'm not mistaken. Though at 18C it had activity.. then stalled... then at 20C it's started again. Don't know if the rise in temp is just coincidental or whether 18C was too cold for it (from all my readings it's a big fat "NO"), but if i go off the way it is now (20C) it's bubbling away happily (yet i still have this nagging feeling I should cool it again)....