New to home brewing and a little confused

[Roosterboy]

You're not wrong about trying to keep everything sanitised in regard to boiling your water, the problem is
boiling can change the composition slightly and reduce dissolved oxygen needed for yeast growth.
The longer you leave it after boiling the more likely contamination. Unless you put it in closed containers
and cool them off in a ice bath. Consider at least a pasteurising your water , don't just add cold water
from a tap.I know alot of brewers do it and if your brewing high alcohol beers , high IBU (lots of hops)
or pitching lots of yeast you may not notice it but try brewing a commercial(bland beer) clone they won't work.
With craft beers your trying to keep the good yeast at high enough levels to out-compete contaminants.
It's easier to cool smaller volumes so think about using a 15-20 L fermenter for small batches. I use these
for lagers so I can fit them in a medium sized fridge.
If using boiled water shake the hell out of it in the fermenter before adding yeast.
Commercial breweries don't do things they don't need to but they filter (take out bacteria and yeast) their water
and many that make beers with less flavour pasteurise them at the end.
They also use acid sanitisers , like star san.

 

[butisitart]

Started with 1Kg of Morgans Body Blend and 408g of a 1kg bag (which turned out to be 880g.. bastards!) of LDME from the LHBS... ............

I totally filled the airlock with vodka... after doing further research it sounds like I overfilled it so emptied half of it out. There isn't any bubbling to speak of, but I can see it's pushing the vodka along in the airlock and there's a smell of yeast in the laundry.

Won't check the gravity again until Thursday giving it the suggested 5days to ferment.

point 1 - when i used to weigh stuff, every hbs loads full weight and a few extra grams cos every brewer has got a set of scales to check it. so either your hbs is a half witted drop kick or your scales are out. if your scales are good, go to a proper hbs.

point 2 - vodka??? you're supposed to drink it - not throw it down an airlock. airlock works like this - yeast creatures pass wind and push their bum vapours through airlock for home brewer to sniff and say 'cool - that smells really good'. nothing pushes air into the fermenter through an airlock except an occasional suck on a freezing cold night when everything's contracting faster than your little friends can fart against it.,,.. so you only need water in the airlock. a sniff slipping through on a freezing night is no more dangerous than any air that might have gotten into the fermenter while you were putting the lid on it and loading up the airlock.

pont 3 - beware the 5 day to ferment. that's only a guide, and not a very good one. there's plenty of advice around forum on how to check if your beer has fermented, often around gravity not changing for 2-3 days, denoting a cessation of conversion activity. my personal rule of thumb is 7 days (coincides with the weekend) minimum. if i ferment for 7 days, i don't age it too much as it could still be fermenting. fermenting in the bottle cos you've dragged the brew out of the fermenter too early is the major cause of exploding bottles. it's still expanding but there's no airlock to relieve the pressure.
if i want to age the beer out more than 6-8 weeks, it ferments for 14 days, coinciding with the next weekend. again, pretty simple. occasionally i'll do a big alcohol beer and it ferments for 3 weeks. and if it's in the fermenter with an airlock and reasonable temperature range, then there's no great likelihood that something bad's going to happen.

ps on the scales - electronic scales need to be on a hard surface. if your scales are on a tea-towel on the bench, they'll read lighter than they should.

 

[TonyF]

Wanted to check my scale so weighed out 1L of water.... 1002gm. Also checked the weights between my digital scales and my old analogue scales of various items (some of a known weight) and they pretty much agree with each other. I'd say the problem was more likely at the HBS.

The vodka was a suggestion I read somewhere on a forum (maybe AHS?) where people said they put vodka, some used no rinse sanitiser in their air lock in case the liquid got sucked back into the fermenter. Said that vodka wouldn't harbour bacteria and wouldn't affect the taste of the beer if it got sucked back in. I had already decided to pop some vodka in there when I read that

I'll definitely be sure to measure the gravity looking for no change between 2-3 days before deciding to bottle. Thought that the best bet would be to leave it alone until the day of or day before the "suggested 5 day" mark.

Thanks for the suggestions!

PS I'm already thinking ahead to the next batch ... Les the Weizguy was right! Aaaarrrgggghhhh!!!

 

[TonyF]

Had no airlock activity and a very small amount of foaming. Found that the airlock needed to sit all the way down in the grommet as it was leaking past if just the stem was going through the grommet (it had to go all the way down to where it branches out). Once i got it fitting nice and snug (last night - Sunday) it started bubbling away quite rapidly. Woke up this morning to find the bubbling had pretty much stopped and it appears through the lid that what little foam we had is receding. I've managed to pretty much keep the beer at between 17/18 - 20.

I'm still going to wait until the 5th day (Thursday) before taking a hydrometer reading as I heard it won't hurt the beer.

Doest it sound like the fermentation process has stalled/stopped and is this "normal" after less than about 36 hours? Should I be concerned or save the concern until I have taken the hydrometer reading on Thursday arvo?

 

[butisitart]

a 36hr ferment is unusual, but not abnormal. a good eye gauge on if it is unusual or abnormal is to see how violent your yeastie eruptions were. there'll be a brown ring of dried something around the inside of the fermenter above the krausen. if it's a big thick brown line 10-15cm deep, then your yeasties have been having a real party and it may well have fermented through pretty quickly. it will be still fermenting a little, but the initial burst is over. if there is bugger all brown stuff ringed around the fermenter and it's stopped bubbling and the lid is sealed down properly onto the fermenter, then there's a good chance your yeast hasn't got a grip on it at all. maybe old or tired yeast, or not much oxygen in the wort.
if you tipped water into your fermenter from a great height and caused tons of air bubbles and seriously oxygenated the krausen, then oxygen is not the problem.if you didn't do that, then i would consider beating the crap out of your krausen to get some oxygen in there. nextly, a second dose of yeast might not go astray. but if you've got a healthy ring of grime caked proud and high around the top of the krausen mark, all is probably ok. it is summer after all, and that can cause a fast ferment.

and if you MUST throw vodka down your airlock, at least have the decency to invite me over to clean it for you :blink:

 

[TonyF]

Weird... dunno if it's because I haven't been throwing frozen water bottles in there or what not, but when I went to check on it again I'm getting bubbling out the airlock... not as much as before but maybe once every 15s or so. I guess this shows it's obviously still fermenting. The temp is now showing 18-20 (both are "lit up" on the stick on thermometer) and prior to that it was probably more a little 16 and mostly 18.

The foam is still on top... it's not very thick I'd say no more than about 1.5-2cm and it's very clean whitish looking but there are obvious dark marks on the edge of the fermenter.

This is almost as bad as waiting for your first child to be delivered!

I probably stress too much.

buisitart.... come on over... you can have the whole bottle if you clean and sanitise my brewing gear after (after I refill the airlock that is hehehe)

 

[evoo4u]

Had no airlock activity and a very small amount of foaming. Found that the airlock needed to sit all the way down in the grommet as it was leaking past if just the stem was going through the grommet (it had to go all the way down to where it branches out). Once i got it fitting nice and snug (last night - Sunday) it started bubbling away quite rapidly.

G'day Tony

In all the years I've been doing K & Ks, I've always believed a good fitting airlock was essential to keep the invading hordes of nasties from infiltrating the wort, the sneaky little *****!

BUT, about two years ago, I got one of Cooper's new designs (with the removable krausen collar and the easy-clean tap) and no provision for an airlock at all. It's been all good! While it's not crystal clear, just a little bit milky looking, you can see what's going on inside - the krausen rising (occasionally erupting if it's a big beer), the astonishing convective activity within the wort when it's at full bore, and then when it's all settled down, you can look at the surface of the brew to see when it's all calm, and you can take your first SG reading - all without removing the lid.

I believe the idea of the krausen collar is that when the krausen initially subsides, you can lift the lid, remove the collar (easier to clean when the krausen ring is fresh) and refit the lid. Because there's still fermentation occurring, there's still CO2 being generated to force the air out through the not-so-tight fitting lid.

So not having to bother with an airlock is great, and the increased airspace with the krausen collar in place means no more overflows to clean up, as used to happen with monotonous regularity with the old FVs.

See - your brewing could be getting cheaper by not having to buy Vodka .

 

[TonyF]

LOL... I have a feeling that nobody likes to see wasted vodka :lol: :lol: ... I could probably keep the vodka and just throw Star-San in there.

I love my airlock though... you know what they say about people with simple minds.... "Duh... look at da pretty bubbles". I'll pbly get a second fermenter so I can have more than 1 batch going at a time and will need some new PET bottles to go with that fermenter so might look at the Coopers one.

This beer making process is so baffling.... my temp is now showing pretty much 20 (as I said I've stopped putting ice bottles in the water bath) and it's bubbling like it was late last night (maybe once every 1-2s). Maybe this beer's gonna be awesome cos the yeast are night time party animals (then again maybe the little bastards will consume all the alcohol they produce)?

Wonder if i should start putting the ice blocks back in the water bath to get the temps back down again............

 

[evoo4u]

Wonder if i should start putting the ice blocks back in the water bath to get the temps back down again............

I'd maintain the ideal temperature for at least five days. Bit of a pain having to use ice blocks/frozen water bottles etc, but keeping the yeast happy is worthwhile.

No problem down the track with a temp controlled fridge of course. My fridge is an old (1970's) Polish made bar fridge - still going strong. With the plastic door lining replaced by a flat sheet of galvanised steel, there's JUST enough room for the fermenter between the door lining and the motor 'hump' at the back. Newer bar fridges tend to be just too small, so if you're looking to acquire a fridge at some stage, you might need to look for a smaller 'normal' fridge, and pair it up with an external thermostat like the STC-1000.

 

[TonyF]

I'd maintain the ideal temperature for at least five days. Bit of a pain having to use ice blocks/frozen water bottles etc, but keeping the yeast happy is worthwhile.

What constitutes "ideal" though? The instructions on the can (22-27C I think it was) seem opposite to the advice of most home brewers, which is 18C or under if I'm not mistaken. Though at 18C it had activity.. then stalled... then at 20C it's started again. Don't know if the rise in temp is just coincidental or whether 18C was too cold for it (from all my readings it's a big fat "NO"), but if i go off the way it is now (20C) it's bubbling away happily (yet i still have this nagging feeling I should cool it again)....

 

[TonyF]

Dropped it back down to 18C by throwing ice in the bath again and bubbling has (as far as i can tell sitting there for a few minutes) stopped. So must've been the higher 20+C temps. Maybe this yeast is tropical and is afraid of the cold

Ok... I lied.. It's bubbling really slowly!

 

[Yob]

What's the gravity reading, pay no attention to the bubbling, it bears little to no indication of fermentation at this point

 

[Rocker1986]

I would imagine the reason they recommend those higher temps on the kit cans is because most newbies like yourself don't have decent temp control (or even know anything about it), and it's easier for them to maintain. Unfortunately it doesn't really help the beer. Keeping it around 18-20 like you have is much better.

+1 pay no attention to the bubbling, but also don't necessarily expect that it will be finished in 5 days; at 18-20C it probably won't be anyway. Personally I don't take any gravity readings until day 7 or 8.

I still have one of those airlock style fermenters myself, except in place of the airlock is a piece of gaffa tape covering the hole. The lid itself is not airtight, so it works basically the same way as the new Coopers design. One less thing to clean and sanitise. :lol:

 

[contrarian]

A yeast can easily chomp through beer in as little as 2-3 days but a different yeast could take 3 or more weeks to finish off. As yob said there is only one way to tell where it is up to and that is take a gravity reading.

 

[TonyF]

This batch seems truly weird.. Slows down/stops during the day... And ramps up again at night time! I'm sitting here listening to it gurgle every 4 or 5s when today during the day it either crawled along or did long periods with seemingly no bubbling.... *confused*

I guess we'll just see how things go come Thursday evening...

 

[TonyF]

Ok.. looks like we might be nearing the end point of fermentation (i can start to see the actual liquid from the foam dissipating and the airlock liquid is even on both sides meaning pressure outside and inside the fermenter shoudl be about even).

I'm going to start checking it tomorrow morning and then again each morning after until I get steady gravity reading.

One thing I wanted to ask was, the instructions say to throw the first quarter of a cup of liquid out before taking gravity readings. Do you guys do this? Do you do it every reading or just the first one since fermentation slowed/stopped?

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions folks!

 

[evoo4u]

One thing I wanted to ask was, the instructions say to throw the first quarter of a cup of liquid out before taking gravity readings. Do you guys do this? Do you do it every reading or just the first one since fermentation slowed/stopped?

Re the discarding of some before you take an SG reading, it's because the tap near the bottom of the FV gets filled with trub and other assorted crap, so I just 'blip' the tap for half a second, the test tube gets half full with rubbishy gunk which I discard, then the next lot is pretty clean 'pure' wort. And yeah, I only do it for the first reading. Not much additional gunk tends to come through into the test tube with successive readings.

You're pretty excited by this brew, aren't you . I usually leave my brews in the FV for at least 10 days. Won't hurt - lets the brew clear a bit. And for lagers, quite a bit longer again, as they're fermented at lower temps than ales, and just take longer. Then add in some 'cold crashing' if you have a fridge, and the duration extends out even further.

But it's a wonderful journey you've embarked upon... :beerbang:

 

[TonyF]

Excited?... I'm gonna wet my pants waiting for this thing to be drinkable!

I'm already thinking of getting a fridge/chest freezer with a temp controller and a kegging system.... Just gotta find some way to do this without the wife finding out hahaha!

As soon as this ones bottled and my friend is well enough to drive again the wheat one is going into the fermentation bucket!

 

[TonyF]

OK... have taken the first of the post fermentation readings 111 hours (roughly) after adding the yeast and got a reading of 1016. So with my original gravity of 1047 that would be roughly 4.1% ABV?

Attached is a pic of how the fermentation bucket looked at the end and the gravity reading I took this morning. Will take another one tomorrow morning to compare.

 

[evoo4u]

OK... have taken the first of the post fermentation readings 111 hours (roughly) after adding the yeast and got a reading of 1016.

Geez Tony, ya gunna have to be a bit more precise - this is an exacting science ya know!

Anyway - how'd it taste? (And of course, don't put the sample back into the FV - it'd present another avenue for infection of the whole brew.)

Edit: And there's still a fair way to go from 1.016 I'd guess.

 

[Diesel80]

Tony F stop stalking your beer mate. You are being a helicopter homebrewer

 

[superstock]

Leave it alone @ 18-20c for 168 hours and then take a gravity reading.

 

[TonyF]

Geez Tony, ya gunna have to be a bit more precise - this is an exacting science ya know!

Anyway - how'd it taste? (And of course, don't put the sample back into the FV - it'd present another avenue for infection of the whole brew.)

Edit: And there's still a fair way to go from 1.016 I'd guess.

Everything seems to have kind of stopped though... no more foam, no more air lock activity... I guess tomorrows gravity reading will tell.
It smelt like beer... and it kind of tasted like beer but not quite right (if you know what I mean)... and had a fair amount of bubbles in it especially considering I thought they are flat post fermentation.

You really think it'll go further from 1.016 for a kit Morgan's Lager?

 

[TonyF]

Tony F stop stalking your beer mate. You are being a helicopter homebrewer

I can't help it! I guess that's where the restraining order came from then

Excuse my ignorance but what is a helicopter homebrewer???

 

[TonyF]

Leave it alone @ 18-20c for 168 hours and then take a gravity reading.

So no gravity reading for tomorrow?

I'll defer to your greater level of experience and leave it till Saturday evening then

PS Looks like the cold water bottles are going back in the freezer hehehe

 

[evoo4u]

Excuse my ignorance but what is a helicopter homebrewer???

Helicopters hover!

 

[spog]

So no gravity reading for tomorrow?

I'll defer to your greater level of experience and leave it till Saturday evening then

PS Looks like the cold water bottles are going back in the freezer hehehe

Take a reading today and Saturday to be sure.

 

[TonyF]

Ok.. took a reading today and it seems about the same at 1016. Definitely smells like beer and seems to have a fairly bitter finish... though that may be cause it's "warm" and I don't usually give my beers time to get to that temperature normally

On a side note, I saw a video where it said to plunge the hydrometer up and down in the tube to remove as much carbonation as possible... do you guys normally do this?

 

[Seaquebrew]

Spinning the hydrometer will get rid of any bubbles that stick to it

Cheers

 

[evoo4u]

After drawing off a sample I wait a while for the foam on the surface to subside. Also I spin the hydrometer in the tube to spin off any bubbles which might be attached to the hydrometer, which would cause it to float higher.

Still think 1.016 is too high, but that depends on what unfermentable sugars you might have added.

As for bubbling through the airlock, as others have said, it's not a good way to assess fermentation occurring, as expansion and contraction with different temperatures can cause bubbles. So you're on the right track with SG readings. Just don't be too hasty - bottle bombs are scary!