New Grainfather Conical Fermenter

[Exile]

At beervana in Wellington. New conical fermenter coming early next year

 

[Cervantes]

Is it truly a conical bottom or a flat bottom with a small conical entry into the nozzle?

 

[timmi9191]

I would take a guess and say it is a conical and the angled bottom is under the outer panel.

Again guessing, Id say the outer panel continues past normal point on a conical to mount onto the stand.

Unusual but i like it. Built in heating and cooling and programable

Price?

 

[Brownsworthy]

Yep i would say it is as it is double walled so I reckon it's hidden by the outer skin which looks as though it's there to support it on the stand.

Got in before me timmi

 

[Exile]

Price?

First born and arm & leg. Most likely

 

[timmi9191]

First born and arm & leg.

Yep figures, nothing likable is cheap..

 

[Killer Brew]

Sounds like you need to provide your own glycol unit

 

[Feldon]

Cold water ex fridge by pump would be adequate to cool a small homebrew fermentor. Glycol is overkill IMO.

Nice looking unit though. Yeah, price is the thing, but the Grainfather mash/kettle is pretty good bang-for-buck. So hopefully this one is inexpensive as well.

 

[paulyman]

Hmm. This throws a spanner in the works. Was considering a kegmenter, but might hold off and see how this goes for pricing. Would be easy enough to pump cold water through it from the fridge. Sounds like it's what the ftss and brew bucket should be.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Cold water ex fridge by pump would be adequate to cool a small homebrew fermentor. Glycol is overkill IMO.

.

Yup.

Brine is actually less efficient than water* but increases the effectiveness of the cooling jackets because the delta T is larger, so it's mainly useful in large tanks**.

If you have enough jacket surface area / fermenter volume you be will be fine with water at say 4 oC***

If you do want to run brine, you don't need glycol. Freezing point depression is a colligative property so it depends on the molarity of the solution, not the solute. Calcium chloride and metho both work well, a corrosion inhibitor**** may be useful depending on system design.




* Factoid: The volumetric heat capacities of over 90% of materials lie in a really narrow range between 2.4 and 3.6 MJ/k/m3 despite their densities being distributed over a range 50 times larger. Water is anomolously high at almost 4.2.

**Surface area to volume ratio decreases as the 2/3 power of volume assuming tanks shape is constant.

*** Unless you need to be able to chill your fermenters / storage tanks below zero, then you obviously need a coolant that is below your target temperature. This is the case in wineries where chilling to - 2 to - 4 oC is standard practice for stabilisation.

**** Any alkaline phosphate will work, K2HPO4 is most common.

 

[GalBrew]

I still like my conical/freezer combo better.

 

[timmi9191]

Yup.

Brine reduces the volumetric heat capacity of the coolant but allows you to run at a lower temperature. This results in a decrease in fridge plant efficiency but an increase the efficiency of the jackets, so it's mainly useful in large tanks*.

If you have enough jacket surface area / fermenter volume you be will be fine with water at say 2 oC**

If you do want to run brine, you don't need glycol. Freezing point depression is a colligative property so it depends on the molarity of the solution, not the solute. Calcium chloride and metho both work well, a corrosion inhibitor may be useful depending on system design.

*Surface area to volume ratio decreases as the 2/3 power of volume assuming tanks shape is constant.

** Unless you need to be able to chill your fermenters / storage tanks below zero, then you obviously need a coolant that is below your target temperature. This is the case in wineries where chilling to - 2 to - 4 oC is standard practice for stabilisation.

And the subtitle version reads: water cooled from a fridge is good for small volumes. Radiator coolant is pretty good too...

 

[Feldon]

One potential issue for this new fermentor is the risk of putting too much pressure through the jacket, particularly if the sheet metal is thin (and the original Grainfather mash/kettle vessel has thin stainless).

The BREWHA BIAC system in the US had this problem (https://brewhaequipment.com/ ). Even without restricting the flow of coolant from the outlet of the jacket, the inner wall blew out and distorted when users put mains pressure water through it. They now supply a pressure reducing valve for the inlet to prevent this.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

FV cooling jackets are normally dimple plate to prevent that very problem. Dimple jackets are rated up to about 6 Bar.

Edited as per discussion below.

 

[wessmith]

FV cooling jackets are normally dimple plate to prevent that very problem. Dimple jackets are rated to about 6 Bar.

Never in commercial FV vessels. Try 2 to 2.5bar max operating and 3 bar manufacturers test. The real issue is the inner skin, we have seen UK manufactured vessels pillow in at 3.5 to 4 bar. We actually install a pressure bypass valve on the chiller outlet to restrict the pressure to 2 to 2.5 bar in the glycol ring main. Also, we dont use automotive glycol (ethylene glycol) due to its toxicity. Propylene glycol is the preferred additive.

Wes

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

Yes, I've edited it to say "rated up to about 6 Bar".

Most of our tanks come from A&G, they offer 3 Bar or 5.5 Bar rating.

Mind you we're too mean to pay for the higher rating.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I wonder what size they'll be. I've got a couple of Brewbuckets and it's a bit disappointing that they didn't make them 30 litres.

Hopefully G.F make these 30 litres.

 

[wessmith]

Yes, we know A&G but what service are you quoting? Winery tanks? Brewery FV and BBT vessels must meet AS4343 class B or class C because of the gas over liquid rating with final compliance and registration to AS1210-2010. Industrial pressure vessels are a whole different ballgame many requiring full vacuum as well as a pressure rating. Fascinating business these pressure vessels.

Wes

 

[Hippy]

Interested to see how much these will be as well as the glycol unit.

 

[paulyman]

Interested to see how much these will be as well as the glycol unit.

The prices I've seen are:

$740 for the conical.
$140 for the dual valve tap.
$90 for the temperature controller.
$1430 for the glycol chiller.

Those prices put it at a similar price to the BME chronical 7. The SSBrewtech glycol unit doesn't seem to ever be coming to Aus as far as I have heard and I have put feelers out, at least for a price anywhere near that, so they may have the market there.