New Brewery Build

[Moad]

The downstairs space is not looking good, had a structural engineer check it out to be 100% confident before I started digging. Preliminary estimate is 7k + which would start eating into the rig budget. The mrs is talking about moving in the next few years so doesn't want to spend the coin on the house. So I figure I will focus my energy on the rig and it can move with me or can move downstairs at a later stage.

On the hardware side of things I have started building a hex with 6-7m of copper coil and a 7.6L bigw pot. I will use this to heat sparging water for my 1v as well which is why I went a bigger pot) I'll try and get a 6kw element in this if I can find a suitable element. Nothing exciting to show here yet, have ordered a few bits and pieces and will have some pics over the weekend time permitting.

I have settled on the BCS 462, I went the 462 over the 460 as I intend on running motorised ball valves so will need the extra outputs the 462 provides. Order placed with 3 x 4inch probes (HEX, Return to MT and HLT) and 1 x 6 inch probe to read the grain bed temp.

Planning to pick up 2 x chugger pumps to move liquid around.

Will probably settle on a 5500w ULD and a 3500w ULD for the Kettle with voltage control on the 3500 to adjust boil if required, 2400w (have one) plus another 4500w on the HLT (to fit on a 32a circuit) and a 6000w in the HEX. Haven't really started designing the circuitry but I think these are enough power for 100L knockout.

 

[real_beer]

The downstairs space is not looking good, had a structural engineer check it out to be 100% confident before I started digging. Preliminary estimate is 7k + which would start eating into the rig budget. The mrs is talking about moving in the next few years so doesn't want to spend the coin on the house. So I figure I will focus my energy on the rig and it can move with me or can move downstairs at a later stage.

Have you ever thought of building a mobile brewing room you can move from house to house? Quite a few people these days make homes out of Shipping Containers, or maybe you could even use an old mobile ATCO Construction Office shed.

Some of the floor coatings you can paint or spray on these days would make them easy to hose and clean out. I've not looked into it at all myself but you'd be the perfect person to evaluate such a magnificent idea :lol:

 

[Moad]

The garage will have to do for now mate, costs are escalating quickly! haha

Here is my plan...



1. Fill HEX Manually
2. Fill MT with Grain
3. Activate BV1-2 until water reaches Float HLT1
4. Close BV1-2 and turn on HLT elements
5. HEX water set by Probe HX to first step temp
6. Elements stay on until temp reached at probe HLT1 for mash in temp
7. HLT Elements off, BV2-2 open, BV3-3 open on HLT side, pump 1 on for dough in
8. When Float HLT2 off then close BV2-2, turn BV3-3 to MT in and recirc, Alarm to signal empty HLT
9. Adjust Float HLT1 to sparge level and open BV1-2 until reached
10. HLT Elements heat to sparge temp (will need to balance with Element HX for power consumption)
11. Element HX now controlled by Probe HXR for mash time and ramps
12. Mash done - BV4-3 changed to MT > BK and BV3-3 changed to HLT > MT and pump 2 on MT > BK for sparge
13. Sparge until Float HLT2 off, close BV2-2, pump 1 off
14. Alarm to signal start of sparge, Pump until MT empty , turn off pump 2 (manual push button which is the reason for alarm)
15. Boil (manually start timer) and change BV5-3 to BK side
16. Timer up - BV7-2 open, pump 2 on, BV6-3 open on BK side for whirlpool for 10-15 minutes
17. Change BV6-3 to Chiller and pump 2 stays on until complete


edit: With this design assuming I have not missed something obvious.. I can mill grain and put into MT and set volume for Strike water then I will need to come back and adjust the float in the HLT for sparge fill. Then i am hands off until boil time. I think this is a nice amount of automation.

 

[MastersBrewery]

So if I got this right you have 11 actuated valves, just don't forget manual valves post pump for flow control. Looks good I'd forgotten just how much was in these systems.

 

[Moad]

7 actuated, 4 3-way and 3 2-way. I believe the 3way valves are on one output and it would be normally open to one side with some voltage changing to the other. Yep manual valve going into HEX and into BK to control flow rates. Cheers MB can't wait for the bcs to turn up

 

[cke11y]

It's really hard to restrain myself from taking this thread off-topic due to how excited I am about the concept of mobile brew rooms as suggested by real_beer. I kind of wish I didn't have a 7x5m brew and bar space so I could justify designing one!

Anyway...

Are you concerned about how many auto-balls you have wort flowing through? Is it possible to at least remove them from your cold side? I reckon you'll do 6 brews, take a peak in one of your valves and will actually exclaim "Oh shit". Can you get auto balls that you can tear down yet?

 

[MastersBrewery]

I remember 3way valves being way too exy at one point you could get 3 normal motorised valves for the price of one 3 way. With the BCS you can setup an automated cleaning run, though pull down once in a while would be handy.

 

[cke11y]

For me, even if I hit and held a set of auto-balls with hot caustic, then flushed, then sanitised, I would still be worried.

They harbour nasties like nobodies business, and there is too much shadowing in them to CIP even slightly.

I'd inspect every brew, and if possible pull the ball and seals out and give a really quick PBW clean. This would be a mission though, even if they tore down easy, when you have a lot of them.

 

[Moad]

I hear you but they aren't all THAT expensive relative to the whole build. I mean I run ball valves now and haven't stripped my rig down now in over a year with no ill affect to the beers I am making.

I have no doubt if I pulled mine apart there would be all sorts of shite in there. Some more knowledgable and experienced brewers will probably correct me here but I don't think it has much of an impact on the product. It gets boiled for 60-90 minutes and then close to boiling sodium perc and a quick run of starsan through after each brew.

Haven't had the price come through for the 3-ways yet so I may use two 2-ways and a tee piece instead of the 3's. But then I will be pushing outputs on the BCS. If it isn't ridiculous I'll just go for the 3-ways, buy once and I am setup then. Unless the gunk in the BV's becomes an issue as cke11y points out.

I am planning on hard plumbing (not 100% decided yet) if I can so a cleaning run is a good idea.

I need to start looking at pots, stout tanks look pretty nice but it will cost me $3k + to get them here and they don't have the configurations I want. I think I could buy some pots and have the fittings welded exactly as I like for much much cheaper. Any suggestions?

 

[MastersBrewery]

The guys at stout will custom any changes for you, just note going all TC fittings will add up real quick. But upside is sanitary connections, semi hard plumbed, quick and easy to pull down. I haven't seen actuated TC valves though I'm sure they're out there. There are a few epic builds on HBT (check the gallery from the home page 'brew setups') you could look through to get some ideas. Then again you could hold off on the full TC plumbing till later down the track after you get to the new house. Something like this maybe http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/1/6/1/5/0/11.jpg

 

[Moad]

Oh man that is one good looking rig and I'll be no doubt referring to that when it comes time to design the stand and plumbing. Pots are next, I'll need dimensions before designing the stand.

Still way expensive, surely it would work out cheaper to add your own attachments to pots?

 

[spog]

The guys at stout will custom any changes for you, just note going all TC fittings will add up real quick. But upside is sanitary connections, semi hard plumbed, quick and easy to pull down. I haven't seen actuated TC valves though I'm sure they're out there. There are a few epic builds on HBT (check the gallery from the home page 'brew setups') you could look through to get some ideas. Then again you could hold off on the full TC plumbing till later down the track after you get to the new house. Something like this maybe http://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/images/1/6/1/5/0/11.jpg

Far out that is one mind blowing brewing rig !

 

[MastersBrewery]

when I think TC I think stout and when I think stout I think of 3 or 4 HBT build threads, no need to hate the Yanks, just hate the weak AU$ 2 years ago your rig would have cost 40% less :angry2: :angry2:

 

[cke11y]

Theres a stout tank thats about 120L and has a bottom drain... would be a beautiful base for a setup. I was gonna go there but I got a bargain on a 114L blichmann.

I cannot recommend TC's highly enough. Totally worth the cash. I just brewed maybe my 6th time on my full TC setup and don't feel the need to even peak at my plumbing - I know its clean - and I'm OCD - well not really, but ball valves worry me.

So.... Heres the thing:

Brewhardware.com (not to be confused with brewers hardware.com) sell a TC cap with a NPT thread tapped into it (after being bored out obviously). This would allow you to be fully TC very easily. I use one on the standard blichmann weldless bulkhead, my pump, and other bits here and there... you just get someone to weld them there, and clean it up real nice (theres pics online)... It's easy for me living in a big dairy region!

MAsters is right... you could hold off.. but the cool thing about TC is you can also just buy a bunch of stuff and it can be broken down, repurposed, re-passivated, re-cleaned, sanitised, used again for something, then stripped back again, etc, etc... You may just have some TC-barb>Silicon>TC-barb hoses for a while... no big deal!

 

[cke11y]

An addendum to my post above:

Making things 'sanitary' (i.e. sanitary-ish) at home-brew level using these tapped caps from brew hardware only really works if you have an item with male threads... not sure you can get auto's with male plumbing?????

Also... I like the pots from brewershardware - I think they might be a bit more economical than stout and they will customise. I'd still go bottom drain though if money was no option - not that I have experience, but I reckon they'd be much easier to clean.

 

[MastersBrewery]

also working with the BCS you may want to check this thread, little tips like opening valves 5 seconds before a pump starts are littered throughout and the OP customised the web interface and wrote it up. The learning never ends

ED: And this one

That's one of my fav's, you better half can kill me later h34r:

 

[Moad]

Hey MB,

You were right about the 3 way valves, they are 3-4 times the price of the 2 way.

If I was to use 2 x 2 way where the 3 ways are I would have 18 outputs including the 2 pumps and 5 elements.

Could I use one of the 6 PID outputs for just on/off to control one of the pumps?

 

[cke11y]

Hey moad you can get output extension boards for the bcs.

Can't remember what they're called though... They're like a terminal block full of relays. Bcs forum will help you find em.

 

[Moad]

Yeah the digi16. Was hoping to avoid it iif possible but have fired off an email to get a price. My bcs hasnt been shipped yet so will add one if the cost isn't ridiculous. Will give me the option of controlling ferment as well

 

[MastersBrewery]

I'm thinking you'd most likely go to manual valves at the vessels, your manually filling, your HLT pump would then need priming so the valve at the vessel could just stay open. Check JonW's lay out using only 6-7 Actuated valves. The same for the MT, you probably want to be there mashing in( pro kit actually sprays water and grits into the mash tun together avoiding any dry spots or lumps) and when you start sparge; and the kettle, well your there for 0min additions anyway. To help add in the third MT pump. Each vessel it's own pump inlet, out put to a common rail. If you were to go the expansion, you could go completely nut with sensor etc. If I get the chance I'll draw up something up to give you some ideas.

More inspiration Bluto 555