Need to age a dunkelweizen?

[manson81]

I'm going to have a crack at a dunkel for a German themed party we're having in about a month.

I know a hefeweizen would be best drunk fresh, but would this be the same for a dunkel? Or would it benefit a bit of aging in the keg?

FYI it'll be force carbed.

 

[Weizguy]

In my opinion, all relevant esters fade with time, and fresh is best

 

[manson81]

Excellent, cheers! I don't plan on making it til next weekend (mainly cos I haven't ordered the grain) so that'll give me 3 weeks to get it fermented out, kegged and carbed.

 

[aaronpetersen]

I have finally finished a keg of dunkelweizen that was kegged about 4 months ago and I reckon it tastes the same now as it did when first kegged. You can interpret that however you like but I think it shows that ageing isn't needed but also isn't harmful.

 

[Adr_0]

Dunkel lager should be, but not a dunkel weisse. Easy on the roast, maybe just a tiny bit (0.5-1%?) carafa special 1 and get the colour with dark munich/wheat/care-wheat. I'm sure there are some awesome recipes out there.

 

[Parks]

No need to age them but I find they drop nice and clear over a few weeks and drink better. The clovey phenolics really seem to come into balance as the banana ester fades a little.

That's based on my setup/temp/etc.

 

[manson81]

Thanks for the advice all!

 

[philistine]

I did a dunkel weizenbock about .... 2 months ago now I reckon.... Anyway, I've noticed it improve significantly

 

[philistine]

Bah! Hit send by accident.... Anyway, I was trying to say that the recipe recommended 4 weeks bottle conditioning and I found that even after 4 it didn't taste as good as it does now after what... 6-8 weeks in the bottle? I've also noticed that this brew also tastes far better after cold conditioning for at least a week in the fridge - very noticeably compared to just chilling it for a day or so....

 

[Dan Pratt]

Dunkelweizen I made this winter like last year was grain to glass in 7 days......fresh is best.

What recipe are you planning?

 

[manson81]

Still trying to think of the recipe. But I'm think 50% dark wheat, 40% pilsener and the rest some dark Munich, carafa and special B. Obviously in small amounts. Completely open to ideas though.
Could chuck in a small amount of Melanoidin.

 

[manson81]

And ferment with 3068. And use noble hops minimally.

 

[carniebrew]

I've got this in the keg now. Fermented at 17C with a deliberate 70%'ish underpitch of 3068. Fermented out in 4 days, kegged and carbed soon after. Great chocolate and vanilla blended in with the usual banana esters. Everyone seems to be enjoying it.

Recipe: Frau Farbissina Dunkelweizen
Brewer: CarnieBrew
Style: Dunkelweizen
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 26.17 l
Post Boil Volume: 22.17 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 17.50 l
Bottling Volume: 15.80 l
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 36.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 14.8 IBUs
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.80 kg Joe White Wheat Malt (3.5 EBC) Grain 1 61.3 %
0.75 kg Bestmalz Pilsner (3.2 EBC) Grain 2 17.5 %
0.70 kg Joe White Light Munich Malt (16.0 EBC) Grain 3 15.3 %
0.15 kg Special B Malt (354.6 EBC) Grain 4 3.3 %
0.12 kg Carafa I (900.0 EBC) Grain 5 2.6 %
25.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.80 %] - Boil Hop 7 14.8 IBUs
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 8 -
1.0 pkg Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast 9 -


It doesn't take much Carafa I/Special B to give it that dark brown colour, and there's no roasted flavour at all, as it should be.

 

[philistine]

This is the recipe I used - its an attempt at an Erdinger Pikantus clone.
credit and thanks to the author , but I have to apologise because I cant remember who it was!
Its for a dunkler weizenbock, but you could easily scale it down to bring it back to an average ABV.
Its a little on the heavy side (as in mouthfeel) , but I think that had more to do with mistakes I probably made while brewing it, however IMO its a really well balanced tasty brew and would be excellent if toned down to a standard Dunkelweis.
I also primed the bottles with DME instead of dex/sugar - but I'm not well versed enough in brewing to be able to say which is better for this beer.

Batch Size = 22L
OG 1.072 (70% efficiency)
EBC 60.6
IBU 25.2

60 minute 63C mash (Optional: do a 30min 55C protein rest with the wheat before the main mash):
4kg Weyermann Wheat
2kg Weyermann Pilsener malt
300g Weyermann Munich I
300g Weyermann Cararoma
200g Weyermann Caramunich I
100g Choc Wheat
100g Roasted Wheat

90 minute boil:
36g Tettnanger Pellets (4.5% A/A) for 90 mins
26g Tettnanger Pellets for 10 mins

WLP300 yeast or Wyeast 3068 - make a basic clean wheat beer first and repitch the Pikantus wort onto the fresh slurry to get decent attenuation - keep the wort under 19C to avoid excessive esters and bananas in the final product. You should try for a sub 1.015 FG. Best served after at least 4 weeks bulk conditioning.

 

[manson81]

After everyone's advice and my searching around online, I think I'll go something like this:
Wheat Malt 2.50 kg
Pilsner Malt 2.00 kg
Carafa 1 0.10 kg
Special B 0.10 kg
Wheat Chocolate Malt 0.05 kg

25g tettnanger @ 60
15g tettnanger @ 5

3068 yeast.

What do you reckon?

 

[Rod]

It maybe a matter of taste

mine is 34 weeks old and nice and mellow

but then I drink most of my brews a 4 months +

 

[carniebrew]

After everyone's advice and my searching around online, I think I'll go something like this:
Wheat Malt 2.50 kg
Pilsner Malt 2.00 kg
Carafa 1 0.10 kg
Special B 0.10 kg
Wheat Chocolate Malt 0.05 kg

25g tettnanger @ 60
15g tettnanger @ 5

3068 yeast.

What do you reckon?

Personally wouldn't bother with any hops after 60m, unless you're after something different from a traditional dunkel style. Rest looks good.

Just saying 3068 isn't quite enough though...if you're after something like the commercial offerings, you need to underpitch 3068, and ferment at 17C.

 

[manson81]

Thanks Carnie, so if I got a packet of Wyeast liquid 3068,i should only add about 70% of it?

 

[Parks]

Do not under pitch it, seriously.

When they say to under pitch this is in relation to commercial pitching rates which is normally much higher than home brewers would pitch.

Pitch a healthy starter at the correct rate and ferment at 17.

 

[sponge]

Slightly OT, but I read this article on BYO not too long ago which talks about wheat beers and yeast management.

Backs up what parks says about a nice big healthy starter.

EDIT: Not trying to open a wheat-beer-pitching-rate-can-of-worms, more just for reference sake.