My Own Kit

[maltedhopalong]

Hi Guys,

Quick question, has anyone tried just buying a can of malt extract in the colour you want your beer and hopping it yourself? If so, what was the outcome? Has anyone got any good recipes by doing this?

 

[chimera]

most definitely, do some reading on extract brewing there's heaps of info & recipes if you're interested.

 

[Prawned]

Here is a good link, Ive done a couple of extract brews now, and it is totally worth the little bit of extra effort


http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=15469&hl=

 

[maltedhopalong]

OK, I've been having a look at the extract brewing stuff, but what if i didn't wanna go down the road of boiling grains and stuff, and especially can't be bothered mashing brains etc.?

I was thinking of buying malt extract (those unhopped ones) and adding my own hops. Has anyone tried this??? I don't like the "twang" and I think that most of it comes from the cheap hops that are used in the cans, so if I used a malt extract and fresh hops, i would get smoother tasting, less twangy beer. Right?

 

[bconnery]

OK, I've been having a look at the extract brewing stuff, but what if i didn't wanna go down the road of boiling grains and stuff, and especially can't be bothered mashing brains etc.?

I was thinking of buying malt extract (those unhopped ones) and adding my own hops. Has anyone tried this??? I don't like the "twang" and I think that most of it comes from the cheap hops that are used in the cans, so if I used a malt extract and fresh hops, i would get smoother tasting, less twangy beer. Right?

I would say firstly that you will definitely get a nice result if you use some grains along the line but I've done a few all extract brews in the past using unhopped ones and then the morgans specialty malt ones.

Apologies for the sketchy notes. I wasn't so complete with record taking back then...

These were all nice beers but similar ones with even just a little bit of steeped grains I found even better.

I also can't say for sure that these were true to style but they give you a starting point anyway...



IPA

2.5kg Light DME, 1.5kg Amber LME, 50g Cascade Hops, 20g fuggles hops, 30g Goldings Hops.SAFALE S-04 Yeast

2.5kg Light DME, 1.5kg Amber LME, 40g Cascade, 20g Goldings at 60. 10g Goldings, 10g Cascade at 40. 20g Fuggles at 2.


Porter

1.5kg Morgans Dark Unhopped LME. 1kg Morgans Chocolate Malt. 1kg Morgans Dark Crystal Malt. 250g dark dry malt extract. 50g Cascade Hop pellets. Small amount of tettnager hop cones. SAFALE S-04 Yeast

750g Dark Unhopped LME, 250g dark DME, 25g Cascade at 60. 15g Cascade at 30. 1kg tin Chocolate Malt at 15. 1kg tin Dark Crystal Malt, 750g Dark Unhopped LME, 10g Cascade at 5. Small amount of tettnager hop cones at 2. Strain into fermenter but add most of remnants anyway... Fill to 19L


Baby Bock

2.5kg Light DME. 500g Dark DME. 1kg Morgans Chocolate Malt. 50g Hallertau hop pellets. 50g Saaz hop pellets. Morgans Lager Yeast

500g LightDME & 500g Dark DME at 60. 50g Hallertau hops at 60. 25g Saaz hops at 60. 25g Saaz hops at 30. 2kg Light DME and tin of Chocolate Malt at 15. Strain into fermenter but add most of remnants anyway Fill to 21L


Oktoberfest

2.5kg Amber LME. 1kg Morgans Caramalt. 500g Wheat DME. 200g Dark DME. 50g Hallertau Hop Pellets. 80g Tettnanger hop flowers

1kg LME at 60. 50g Hallertau at 60. 30g Tettnanger in stocking bag at 30. 1.5kg LME at 15. 500g Wheat Malt at 15. 1kg Morgans Caramalt at 10. 50g Tettnanger hops in stocking bag at 5

 

[maltedhopalong]

Thanks bcon, everywhere I look, you're answering my questions!!!

Thanks mate

 

[Adamt]

You cannot hop malt extract (properly) without boiling the hops in with some or all of the malt extract. Also, boiling the malt extract is probably the best way to get rid of the "twang", however boiling kits ruins the bitterness already in them, which is why this is not usually recommended. The "twang" comes generally from old/poor quality malt extract, not the hopping.

Many specialty grains, like crystal, caramel malts and roasted malts and just be steeped overnight in cold water (at a rate of 2-3L per kg of grain) then strained into the rest of the brew, so it's not that hard.

Here's a recipe:

-Bring 25L of water to the boil, add 2 cans of light liquid malt extract and stir well. (Alternatively, boil 12L and put in 1 can, or 6L and put in half a can, rest can be added later). Also add any wort from any specialty grains used. Boil for 15 minutes.

-Then go ahead with the hopping schedule you want.

e.g. 20g Cascade boiled for 60 minutes, 20g for 20 minutes and 20g for 5 minutes.

-At flameout add the rest of the liquid malt (if any), stir well, cover pot and chill.

-Strain into fermenter once cool enough, top up if necessary and pitch yeast.

--

That recipe covers most any light-coloured beer you can think of with the right hopping schedule, right specialty grains and right yeast.

Keep in mind it is ideal to boil as much as you can but if you don't have the equipment, boiling part of it (and hopping) will produce a marked difference in your beers providing your fermentation/yeast handling techniques are sound.

Adam

 

[PostModern]

Remember maltedhopalong, you have to boil the extract with the hops. It's not just dump and stir. Mini-mashes or steeping specialty grains will help for some styles. A mate of mine does it in a coffee plunger

EDIT: beaten to the point by Adamt :beer:

 

[The King of Spain]

Adamt

You cannot hop malt extract (properly) without boiling the hops in with some or all of the malt extract. Also, boiling the malt extract is probably the best way to get rid of the "twang", however boiling kits ruins the bitterness already in them, which is why this is not usually recommended. The "twang" comes generally from old/poor quality malt extract, not the hopping

I'm doing my first partial tomorrow, I have not touched a Kit for a year now and I am a little worried about the return of the twang.

I was going to use a Morgans blue mts larger with 2.5kg Galaxy and 0.200kg wheat and S-189 yeast. I was not going to do a long boil with hop additions, just mash, batch sparge, boil for 20min or so for hot break, then add kit and chill. (The theory being I save some time while I catch up on some other work).

I thought the twang was what you got when yeast has to chew through material like sugar without the enzymes required for a healthy ferment (hence my choice of Galaxy). Maybe we are saying the same thing, is the poor malt creating the twang with its low enzyme count??

Cheers

 

[pint of lager]

I was going to use a Morgans blue mts larger with 2.5kg Galaxy and 0.200kg wheat and S-189 yeast. I was not going to do a long boil with hop additions, just mash, batch sparge, boil for 20min or so for hot break, then add kit and chill. (The theory being I save some time while I catch up on some other work)

Looks like a good partial mash strategy. Even a 20 minute boil gives you enough time to do some hop additions. Most kits are lacking any sort of hop character besides bitterness from isohops.

I thought the twang was what you got when yeast has to chew through material like sugar without the enzymes required for a healthy ferment (hence my choice of Galaxy). Maybe we are saying the same thing, is the poor malt creating the twang with its low enzyme count??

Opinions have varied on the twang but have settled on old liquid malt extract being the culprit.

Using a large component of simple sugars such as sucrose create another range of strange flavours. These are due to the yeast struggling without enough nutrients to do their job. An all malt brew usually supplies enough nutrients.

 

[maltedhopalong]

OK, so getting slightly off topic here, but can you basically do ag brewing with specialty grains by just steeping them in cold water overnight? jeez, that's almost easier than a kit...

 

[bconnery]

OK, so getting slightly off topic here, but can you basically do ag brewing with specialty grains by just steeping them in cold water overnight? jeez, that's almost easier than a kit...

No, because specialty grains don't need a temperature controlled steep, or mash, to bring out the sugars. That has happened already. Specialty grains basically contribute colour and flavour, and aren't generally used in high enough amounts to contribute significant alcohol.

Base malts, as the other kind are called, are what you use to get alcohol, as well as contributing flavour and body and other things.

In extract brewing you use extract to replace base malt and can then use extract or specialty grains to get the colour and flavours required.

 

[maltedhopalong]

if those other grains just provide base malt for alcohol, couldn't you just use dme or even dextrose?

 

[Adamt]

DME is exactly that, extract from malted barley, which is concentrated and powdered. Malt extract is not entirely maltose, sugar that is mainly fermented into alcohol, it does contain other compounds that give it a beery taste. You cannot replace all of the malt extract with dextrose, you can try it if you want but you won't be happy!

Extract brewing is pretty much:

Take an AG recipe:
Replace the base malts with malt extract to avoid a mash.
Use the same specialty grains where possible.
Use the same hops.

 

[bconnery]

if those other grains just provide base malt for alcohol, couldn't you just use dme or even dextrose?

They do provide more than just alcohol as I said, like flavour and body. You can use just dme. Dried malt extract is made from base malt.

What you don't get from using malt extract of any kind is quite the same reactions and control over how those base malts are used to provide that alcohol. All sorts of factors come into play when determing how grains make the final beer, even before you add in hops and yeast to the equation. Different mash temperatures and different water ratios can make a different beer from the same grain.

Plus there are many different types of base malt, whereas malt extract, dried or liquid, at least here in Oz mainly comes in two forms, wheat and plain (for want of a better term).

You can't use just dextrose because it isn't made from grain. It will be fully fermented and won't give you enough body. There are more technical ways of explaining it than that of course but that's the crux of it...

 

[RobboMC]

No, because specialty grains don't need a temperature controlled steep, or mash, to bring out the sugars. That has happened already. Specialty grains basically contribute colour and flavour, and aren't generally used in high enough amounts to contribute significant alcohol.

Base malts, as the other kind are called, are what you use to get alcohol, as well as contributing flavour and body and other things.

In extract brewing you use extract to replace base malt and can then use extract or specialty grains to get the colour and flavours required.

My last mini-mash ended up about 7 litres, and I managed to cool it to 16 Deg C fairly quickly. I used about 1 kg of grain in 5 litres in one pan, and did a hop mini-boil of 250g DME in 2 litres in another pan. Obviously to go AG one needs capacity to boil, then cool around 20 litres of wort.

So my questions are:

how far can I go in my mini-mash volumes and still get it cool without a wort chiller?

I can fit a fermenter in my fridge, if I try and use my fridge at maximum coldness setting will the wort oxidise before it cools. This would allow me to cool 20 litres.

I only have an electric stovetop, on the big stove ring how many litres am I going to be able to boil,
it seemed to boil 5 litres Ok. Maybe I can do 2 lots of 10 litre boils, or would the first lot oxidise in the hour taken to boil the second batch?

 

[The King of Spain]

pint of lager

Looks like a good partial mash strategy. Even a 20 minute boil gives you enough time to do some hop additions. Most kits are lacking any sort of hop character besides bitterness from isohops.

Thanks point of lager. I've just made an adjustment to the plan and ordered some Noble hops off Ross.

 

[bconnery]

My last mini-mash ended up about 7 litres, and I managed to cool it to 16 Deg C fairly quickly. I used about 1 kg of grain in 5 litres in one pan, and did a hop mini-boil of 250g DME in 2 litres in another pan. Obviously to go AG one needs capacity to boil, then cool around 20 litres of wort.

So my questions are:

how far can I go in my mini-mash volumes and still get it cool without a wort chiller?

I can fit a fermenter in my fridge, if I try and use my fridge at maximum coldness setting will the wort oxidise before it cools. This would allow me to cool 20 litres.

I only have an electric stovetop, on the big stove ring how many litres am I going to be able to boil,
it seemed to boil 5 litres Ok. Maybe I can do 2 lots of 10 litre boils, or would the first lot oxidise in the hour taken to boil the second batch?

I can't be sure about the real maximums but I got as far as about 2kgs but that was more based on my pot.

If you are going to be boiling the full lot then a burner is the best bet.

In my opinion, and it is just that, you are better off going the 1-1.5kg + specialty grain minimash route until you want/are ready to go AG, and you may never want to!. A stove should handle doing 10L, I've done close to that, so you could always go that way

I use to chill the wort as much as I could as well as have my top up water as cold as it could be and never had issues getting my temps down...

You are going to want to boil even more than 20L in AG, unless you want to do small batches...

I do over 30 for a normal 22L batch...

 

[pint of lager]

how far can I go in my mini-mash volumes and still get it cool without a wort chiller?

All the way up to full volume batches.

For the last few minutes boil with the lid on to sanitise the underside of the lid (watch out for boil overs) turn the heat off and let the wort cool without any help from a chiller. Next day transfer to a fermenter and pitch your yeast. There are risks of DMS formation from slow cooling.

Another method of crash cooling brews in saucepans is to stand it in the laundry tub in water about up to the wort level in the saucepan. Too deep and it floats around and runs the risk of tipping over. Every ten minutes or so, swirl the wort gently in the saucepan to move the wort around. Change the cooling water a few times. Keep the lid on until ready to pour into the fermenter. Do not let cooling water splash around the lid.

My first few full size ag's were mashed and sparged in a zapap and boiled in two big saucepans cooled in the laundry tub. Worked fine.

I can fit a fermenter in my fridge, if I try and use my fridge at maximum coldness setting will the wort oxidise before it cools. This would allow me to cool 20 litres.

The oxidising of hot wort occurs when it is transferred with splashing when hot. This is generally referred to as hot side aeration or HSA. If the brew is consumed fresh, it doesn't seem to be an issue. If the brew is to be kept (such as for a barley wine or big beer) staling will occur quicker (loss of hop flavours, cardboard characteristics or sherry like characteristics developing)

I only have an electric stovetop, on the big stove ring how many litres am I going to be able to boil,
it seemed to boil 5 litres Ok. Maybe I can do 2 lots of 10 litre boils, or would the first lot oxidise in the hour taken to boil the second batch?

You can do your brew in two batches. It just extends the length of your brewday. The first lot will only oxidise if it is splashed around while hot.

 

[hoppyhead]

Wow, I am learning alot from this post. I am fairly close to doing my own extract brew. I still have some questions. First one is easy

Do i have to boil hops in the wort, or can i just boil them in a saucepan of water. This is what I do now with my kit brews.

What is meant by the term "mash"?

No, because specialty grains don't need a temperature controlled steep, or mash, to bring out the sugars. That has happened already. Specialty grains basically contribute colour and flavour, and aren't generally used in high enough amounts to contribute significant alcohol.

Base malts, as the other kind are called, are what you use to get alcohol, as well as contributing flavour and body and other things.

In extract brewing you use extract to replace base malt and can then use extract or specialty grains to get the colour and flavours required.

This post has me a bit confused. It talks about speciality grains, Base malts , and extracts.

From what I understand: Speciality grains are the ones you buy and crack, and steep in water.

Base malts would refer to Light Malt Extract, either in liquid or dry form? This essentially replaces the 1.7kg tin you buy.

Am I on the right track?

So, all I need to make an extract brew is say 2 kg of unhopped malt, either liquid, or dry, Some grain say 1 kg steeped in water, and hops of my own choice?