My First Twocan

[Zipster]

HI there,

I have 1 can of cooper's basic lager and 1 can of coopers basic draught.

I got another few things in store:

-amarillo hops
-nelson hops
-golding hops
-generic amber yeast
-S23 salflager
-1k LDM
-1K Dextrose

23L fermenters and also the tall ones they look like over 30L. Temperature is between 22 and 26c.

Shall I brew 30L? 23L? Got a bit confused with other twocan threads...

Thanks in advance.

z.

 

[Diesel80]

Hey Zip,



if it is your first toucan ever, then just use both cans, the Saf yeast (if you can brew it at correct temps).

Fill to 21-23L and ferment it. Should be quite bitter. I would then after guaging results of taste tests from hydro samples work out if you need to add any dry hopping for aroma enhancement.

Would hesitate to throw too many variables at the first batch, because if it turns out sh!t there are too many things that may have caused it and make it hard to correct going forward.

My 1st and only toucan was
Canadian blonde + Mex cerveza + (5min boil of 20g challenger hops in litre of water only).
Fermented 23L with Safale-S04. Been in the keg conditioning for a month now.

Tasted real good at kegging So if it is a cracker it will be the easiest of brews to replicate since i just bundled 2 cans and water into a fermenter, quick hop boil of 1 hope for aroma and slapped in the yeast.
Fermented @ 18 deg for 10 days and kegged.

Start simple, then tweak in subsequent batches.

Edit: Just noticed the temp you mentioned. Can you lower that for fermenting? If you can't don't use that yeast. S-23 is best about 10-15 degrees. Swap it with an Ale yeast if you can. Even still try keep brew 18-20 if possible. Will make for a better beer if all else is done correctly.


Cheers,
D80

 

[Zipster]

Thanks for that.

I was thinking to do:

1 can draught
1 can lager
1kg LDM
500g Dextrose
1 tsp liquid S23
14g generic amber yeast
25g Amarillo finish
30L water

Would this work?

 

[J Grimmer]

Thanks for that.

I was thinking to do:

1 can draught
1 can lager
1kg LDM
500g Dextrose
1 tsp liquid S23
14g generic amber yeast
25g Amarillo finish
30L water

Would this work?

No reason why it would not work. Personally i would use the s23 and a have a good amount in a starter and not bother with the other yeast, if your planning to to do a boil with your hops use the 500g ldme in that in about 5L of water and boil for about 10-15min. I am assuming you have a larger than 30L fermenter as the last toucan draught i did (all 23L of it), went ballistic and had froth and god knows what pouring out of the airlock on my 30L fermenter (just something to watch out for).

 

[manticle]

Why are you mixing the yeasts?

What is amber yeast?

What is s23 liquid yeast?

26 degrees is too hot for any lager yeast (even too warm for most ale yeasts).

Your actual recipe is fine provided you like the flavour of amarillo? Beer will be pretty strong and may need some time to mellow though - another reason I definitely wouldn't use a lager yeast at those temperatures.

 

[bignath]

"Hmmmm, Confused you are young Zipster"....

+1 for not knowing what generic amber yeast is, what liquid s23 yeast is, and why you'd want to mix them.

 

[Zipster]

No reason why it would not work. Personally i would use the s23 and a have a good amount in a starter and not bother with the other yeast, if your planning to to do a boil with your hops use the 500g ldme in that in about 5L of water and boil for about 10-15min. I am assuming you have a larger than 30L fermenter as the last toucan draught i did (all 23L of it), went ballistic and had froth and god knows what pouring out of the airlock on my 30L fermenter (just something to watch out for).

I wont use only s23 as some may die due to the temperature. We may have 18c when overcast in this season however I get up to 26 on a hot day in my brewery.

" if your planning to to do a boil with your hops use the 500g ldme in that in about 5L of water and boil for about 10-15min" >> why that?

"I am assuming you have a larger than 30L fermenter" >> Not sure... they are the tall ones with screw top... what are they?

" the last toucan draught i did (all 23L of it), went ballistic and had froth and god knows what pouring out of the airlock on my 30L fermenter" >> Was that with fermenting sugars on top?

 

[Zipster]

Why are you mixing the yeasts?

What is amber yeast?

What is s23 liquid yeast?

26 degrees is too hot for any lager yeast (even too warm for most ale yeasts).

Your actual recipe is fine provided you like the flavour of amarillo? Beer will be pretty strong and may need some time to mellow though - another reason I definitely wouldn't use a lager yeast at those temperatures.

In order to cover an eventual range of between 18 to 26. I like the real lager stuff, if it dies out then the other yeast will kick in, that's my plan, is that crazy? Someone here told me I could mix yeasts, I have done that before and it turned out good actually..

S23 liquid is just some I kept in my fridge from an earlier batch.

I heard Amarillo is used in James Squire Golden Amber which I like... don't you? I will taste/smell it before I pour it in anyway.

 

[bignath]

I wont use only s23 as some may die due to the temperature. We may have 18c when overcast in this season however I get up to 26 on a hot day in my brewery.

" if your planning to to do a boil with your hops use the 500g ldme in that in about 5L of water and boil for about 10-15min" >> why that?

"I am assuming you have a larger than 30L fermenter" >> Not sure... they are the tall ones with screw top... what are they?

" the last toucan draught i did (all 23L of it), went ballistic and had froth and god knows what pouring out of the airlock on my 30L fermenter" >> Was that with fermenting sugars on top?

A solution of 100g LDM per litre will give you a boil gravity of close to 1.040 which is where you will extract maximum benefit out of your hops.

Those tall fermenters - i have three of them. They are 30lt to the brim. Wouldn't brew much past 25/26lt though.

Why use a lager yeast at all if your gonna be dealing with those temps without any control over them?
It reads like you know that using lager yeast at those temps is not a good thing to do, but plan to do it anyway......

Lots of ways to control temp: Fridge (working or not), Bath tub or big bucket filled with water, Electric fan blowing on it, Wet towel draped over it.......etc etc etc.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Son, an STC-1000 and a fridge is needed.

If you're like me and your daytime temps are that high, you will not brew decent beer in summer. I tried it last year, even had the aircon on. It doesn't work.

At 26 degrees, you will get higher-order alcohols (think of the difference between drinking metho and drinking vodka), which cause headaches and taste nasty.

Lagers are never brewed at 26 degrees and I won't use an ale yeast at that temp.

If you struggle to get it down, maybe a saison yeast, though it still won't be a lager.

Finally, it appears as though you are trying to do too much, too quick, without understanding fully the consequences of your decisions.

You can't be expected to know it all at once, Rome wasn't built in a day. I've been brewing for 13 years and there is always something new to learn.

Yes, mixing yeasts can be fine - but you need to understand why it's ok/not ok. Same with "what do hops do?"; "why ferment at x temp?" and so on.

Good luck, keep reading and don't give up.

Goomba

 

[manticle]

In order to cover an eventual range of between 18 to 26. I like the real lager stuff, if it dies out then the other yeast will kick in, that's my plan, is that crazy? Someone here told me I could mix yeasts, I have done that before and it turned out good actually..

S23 liquid is just some I kept in my fridge from an earlier batch.

I heard Amarillo is used in James Squire Golden Amber which I like... don't you? I will taste/smell it before I pour it in anyway.

Amarillo is used in JS Golden Ale and yes I like it. Some people don't - being your beer I don't want to recommend using a finishing hop you may not like.

During the early part of fermentation, the yeast reproduces a lot. During this time, it is prone to throwing unwanted flavours if the temperature is high. While it's best to keep temps consistent throughout most fermentations, it is the first few days that are the most crucial.

It's not a case of the yeast conking out and the other taking over. If you ferment lager yeast at 26 it will throw funky flavours that you will struggle to remove, even if there is another ale yeast in there. Even most ale yeasts at 26 won't be superb.

Do you have a bath or a wet towel or a fan or combination of any of these that you can use to keep the fermenter cool at least for the first 3-4 days? If you do, use the amber ale yeast, whatever it is and try and stay under 22 (18 - 20 is better but under 22 should be OK).

Yes you can mix yeasts if you want characteristics from both types (usually flavour) and some kit yeasts contain a hybrid of ale and lager yeasts. However s-23 at 26 is asking a lot, even with something else in the mix.

 

[Diesel80]

Zip,

Where are you brewing this beer? Why is your fermentation site so hot?

Currently the inside of my brewery gets to about 30-35 degress in my shed in perth. Heat soak into the tin for the win!

BUT inside the fridge inside my brewery where my fermenters are housed, a tidy 18 deg is maintained, or lower if i desire. $70 the fridge, controller, extension cords and wire cutters cost me all up purchased seperately.
Probably cost you about $50 for a sparkie to wire controller for you.

Then you could brew a mighty crisp lager if you so desire.

If you can't brew below 26 degrees then i would fear no amount of hops will save you mate.

 

[Rowy]

View attachment 49495


"Hmmmm, Confused you are young Zipster"....

+1 for not knowing what generic amber yeast is, what liquid s23 yeast is, and why you'd want to mix them.

Thats fucken funny I nearly pissed myself laughing.

 

[Zipster]

I mixed my 2 cans with 1Kg LDM and 500g Dextrose in 27L of boiled rain/tank water. It will cool off over night and will pitch it in the morning with the provided generic yeast only, no S23.. They reckon 32c max so it should be ok.

I live in the rain forest in north NSW, very little electricity only solar power so a fridge is a luxury at this stage.

Thanks for all your comments.

 

[bignath]

They reckon 32c max so it should be ok.

No it won't. It'll be shit. Why even bother brewing it.

As mentioned several times already, if your brewing temp is anywhere near that, you'll produce shit.

Also, if you're gonna put it in a 30lt fermenter, you have hardly any headspace left at all, most likely resulting in a yeasty beer monster climbing out of your fermenter and running rampant around your house.

Why ask questions and then completely go against the advice of experienced brewers on this site.

Should have gone with just the two cans so you know what to change next time around.
Should atleast attempt to keep fermentation under some form of control. It's not that fucken hard to do.

You've got way too many variables between your recipe, the temp, more than likely underpitching your yeast.....etc.

 

[Zipster]

Easy dude! I have only 27L in it. I had a few beer monsters before they were most welcome. I am not expert in beer, just average, so an average beer is what I deserve don't I... Will see how it goes, will re update the thread later.

Tchuss

 

[bignath]

Easy dude! I have only 27L in it. I had a few beer monsters before they were most welcome. I am not expert in beer, just average, so an average beer is what I deserve don't I... Will see how it goes, will re update the thread later.

Tchuss

Nothing wrong with having 27lt of beer.

But you've got 27lt of beer in a 30lt "fermenter". They are not called fermenters because they are designed to ferment beer in them....They are just water vessels that just by coincidence work beautifully well for fermenting beverages. I wouldn't be surprised if you get one hell of a mess, as in my opinion, 3lt headspace is a very small marging of error to be working with. Particularly as your temp you've quoted is going to be hot, you'll most likely have a very aggressive ferment.

You can also have too little headspace in which case you'll develop a scenario where your beer may not be completely protected by the CO2 barrier as the space may be too big to fill. I reckon you've gone too far the other way, and that CO2 and yeast probably won't have enough space to work in.

There have been many threads posted on this forum about ferments gone crazy (some yeasts are prone to it, other's hardly raise any excitement at all), and krausen has ended up everywhere as it had no where to go but out of the fermenter. Stories are out there from small batches in a 25lt fermenter and it still escaping.

 

[manticle]

They reckon 32c max so it should be ok.

Max temp is not the best or ideal temp. It just means the yeast will work.

It will work within a wide variety of temperature ranges. At the higher end of this temperature range it will not only fermnt beer but it will produce some unwelcome flavours - fruity, metho, solventy etc.
Keep the temp lower and you get cleaner beer. Simple.

Wrap a wet towel around it.

 

[J Grimmer]

" the last toucan draught i did (all 23L of it), went ballistic and had froth and god knows what pouring out of the airlock on my 30L fermenter" >> Was that with fermenting sugars on top?

no, no other fermentables were added to the questioned brew, it is more common with dark & stout toucans but i have had it with that combo. If you haven't have a read through this website http://www.howtobrew.com/sitemap.html, it is very comprihensive.

As for a JSGA clone check out Dr Smurtos Golden Ale http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=21927.

Experiment with ways of getting your ferment temps down there a lots of different ways people do it from ghetto to bling methods and lots of good stuff on this site.

 

[Zipster]

Diesel, Nath etc were correct... The mix was way too rich in sugars that made the taste too full on when I tasted after 3 days of fermentation. Maybe yous should have explained that my ratio of fermenting sugars was too high. Anyway now I got the idea so it's all good..

So I watered it down to:

Drum 1:
13.5L of twocan beer monster
+5L of water

Drum 2:
1.35L of twocan beer monster
+9L water
+500g dextrose

Drum 2 is the original 30L container so added more water since there was space in it. Thinking of rehopping Drum 2 eventually at the end of the process.

Tada