My First Ag Weekend

[head]

OK guys,
On the weekend had my first run at doing all grain. Had a mate helping me Saturday night so that helped a lot, this was after watching him do his AG brew in the afternoon. Did a single batch of Sparkling Ale and a double batch of Irish Red (I did the Irish Red Sunday). Surprised at how fast the hot break/foaming from the boil disappears doing the AG, seems to go on a bit longer when doing extract beers.

1. Firstly, now that I have mentioned hot breakthe amount of hot break left in the bottom of the kettle was mind blowing, especially with the double batch. How do you guys combat picking up crap off the bottom of the kettle when transferring to wort cubes, fermenters etc?

2. When is the right time to stop with the sparging. I used batch sparging for my brews, and after 3 sparges of the Irish I had to stop as I had filled the kettle. The kettle is only a 50L job. Will need to get a bigger one I think before I attempt another double batch. I think the wort in the third running was sitting around the 1020 SG still, and had color still but I had to stop. The SG reading may be a little off kilter due to temperature. Using a refractometer but still a little green with adjusting for temp.

3. Had some weird temperature issues occur. The first was due to not stirring the infusion water. Using a Mashmaster controller and a 2400W element on the HLT to heat the water so hitting and maintaining temp was not an issue, but we found that there was a cold water pocket sitting in the bottom of the HLT, below the level of the element, which gets drawn first. We found this after our first water addition. Note: Lesson learnt. Realized when the dial thermometer didn't hit the expected range. Just meant a protein rest while we bumped up the temp a bit. Second problem is that, we added water, the gauge indicated correct strike temp but the temp dropped rapidly. Lost I would guess 6 degrees over about 30 minutes. Crazy stuff. I did a dry run on the mash tun the other week with a different thermometer, and the temp was help for an hour with only a 2 degree temp drop. I didn't pre heat the tun either so this was damn good. The thermometer I used on the weekend was calibrated an hour before I began. Only thing I can think of with this is that the probe only comes about 1 Inch into the tun. Maybe it is getting cooler near the very edge but the core is holding it's heat. How far do your probes extend into the mash? I am waiting to ferment both brews out to see how they faired.

Apart from that, I liked the look of both brews. They looked awesome. The first runnings color from the Irish Red was to die for. Any help or suggestions as always is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[Trent]

Head
1 We whirlpool after the boil, so all the trub adn crap forms a cone in the centre of the kettle, and then we siphon from the edge.
2 - The right time to stop your batch sparging is when you have the right amount of liquid in the kettle. Generally, you want to split it into 2 batches of draining into the kettle (3 in the case of a double batch) each as close to the same size as the other/s. If you ask me, a 50L kettle is WAY too small to do a double batch. Lets say a double batch is 46L, so you need at least that, and you will probably lose say 3L to trub etc..., so that puts you up at 49L. You will probably lose 4-6L per hour to evaporation in the boil, so there you are at 53-55L (larger than your kettle), and to prevent boilovers, you will need at least another 20% headspace on top of the liquid. If ya wanna do a double batch properly, you will need to be looking at a 65L or larger kettle.
3 - I usually measure the temp from as close to the middle as I can. Wrap a camping mattress or similar around the mash tun to minimise temperature loss. Stir the HLT water several times before trusting the thermometer.

At the end of the day, none of us (or at least me) have a perfect system - we all have funny little idiosyncracies to deal with, and that is all just part of your system. the more you brew on your system, the more you will get used to the little quirks, and eventually they will not bother you at all, you will have compensated for all the bits and pieces, and will be able to replicate each batch fairly well. You learnt quite a bit in your first 2 batches, next time you will probably find something else that is a bit funny. I hope that the batches turn out perfectly, and dont worry too much about your system, it all comes down to understanding the way you need to do your process to get it right.
Hope that helps
Trent

 

[head]

Cheers Trent,
I did whirlpool to try and get all the trub centre but being a sloppy mass, as the fluid went down, the trub Pyramid subsided and flowed to the side anyway. I had raised the pickup tube a little from the first batch but the trub still managed to cover the pickup.

My mashtun has camping mats around it to minimise heat loss and I have wrapped the lot in tape to pull the mats in tight. The confusing thing is why did it hold temp with the dry run but not with the grain. *sigh* I may have to get a second probe for the mashmaster to use on the mash tun.

Thanks for the advice, I didn't think my system would be perfect, but getting a reading saying I am losing that much heat is just plain crazy and frustrating.

Edit: Well a bit disapointing on the Irish Red Front. Just emptied the No Chills into the fermenter and ended up with only 32L. Was after 40L. Tried too much there with the boiler. Oh well, I know now. OG is at 1.051 however.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[leeboy]

Hi head,
I had the same issues with when I got rid of my wort out the boil. until i converted my kettle from a pot, similar to yours. Was never game to try a double in it though (which i think will be great for you, will of learnt lots of invaluable brewing lessons), anyway then I "acquired" a keg, took it to MHB and paid him to weld a tap and arm on it. The bottom of my "acquired" keg has has a hollow in the middle followed by a hump then a raise then another hollow on the outside. Mark got the arm to rotate into this outer hollow, therefore I don't pickup the hops, trube etc.

Anyway sounds like you've really hit the ground running, with the all grain, 69L in your first weekend, very impressive. Great to see. Looking forward to trying your irish red in the HAG case swap and giving/getting feedback.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Head, Trent gives good advice.

With the mash temps... I find that they dont settle down properly for the first few minutes after mashing in. Its all over the place for a while.... the mash water takes a bit of time to fully re-hydrate the grain, and all the while its soaking in.. its heating up new bits of the grain particles and patches of colder mash... so the temp doesn't stabilise till the grist is fully re-hydrated and its well mixed in

When I mash I

- I stir my mash thoroughly (but gently) after I mash in and take a temp while still stirring.
- Wait a minute or two, repeat
- probably repeat again.

Within 4-5 minutes things will have settled down and you will get your "real" initial temp.

When I first started out doing AG.. I freaked out, my strike temps were too high because the heat hadn't finished transferring, then I'd adjust, then they'd end up too low....

It seems to be most peoples experience, that if you follow the Pro-mash / Beersmith / spreadsheet strike water equations, and you pre-heat your mash tun, you should get pretty close to the correct strike temp. Stir, wait, have a little faith and you will come pretty close.

Nothing a few batches worth of experience wont fix anyway.

Cheers

Thirsty