My cider stinks

[TheBaron]

As the title says.

I put down my first cider on Saturday, so it's been in the fermenter for almost 72 hours now.

I checked on it yesterday and noticed some very distinct smells. I would describe them as "sulphury", as others seem to have.

FYI, my (very simple) recipe was:

12L preservative-free apple juice
Wine yeast from LHBS

mixed in a brand new Bunnings water tank that had been soaked with Coopers sanitiser overnight and rinsed thoroughly. Contamination seems unlikely but I guess you never know.

I've done a search and can see that other people have had similar problems with cider, but I couldn't find any record of anyone actually bottling cider that smelt funny and seeing if it tasted okay in a few months. Has anyone gone through with a smelly batch to see how it tastes in a few months? Is there anything I can do about this now or for a future batch if it's a problem? Or do I just need to relax, bottle it in a few weeks and let it do its thing?

I tasted it yesterday (against my better judgement) and it actually tasted fine, very similar to the juice before any fermentation.

 

[TimT]

'Sulphury smells' certainly doesn't sound that unusual. Yeast throws up some weird odours during fermentation. I did an open fermentation a month or so ago; first day I got lovely bready smells; second day similar, though it was changing; third day it was well into the sulphur territory. That's just about 72 hours....!

 

[lael]

The sulphur is because apple juice lacks nutrients. Get some yeast nutrient, boil in a small amount of water for 5-10ins and throw into the fermenter. chances are fermentation is not done yet. Ferment around 16C if possible. Cold crash for an extended period prior to bottling.

The definitive(fish) guide to cider is a great source of information .

 

[lael]

ish - not fish. Autocorrect

 

[TimT]

If all other signs of fermentation are good I wouldn't worry.

 

[TimT]

I question whether the sulphury smell is caused by the apple juice lacking nutrients, for one thing because I've experienced it in other ferments anyway - my open ferment that threw up sulphury smells went down from a high gravtiy of around 1.070 right down to a gravity of around 1.009; the yeast was clearly happy!

For another thing, I don't know whether apple juice would lack nutrients. Apples are very rich and usually have wild yeasts living on them; one traditional method for making cider is to press the juice out and let it begin to ferment by itself. However, store juice is not a very good base for cider - it's selected for sweetness and not fermentation. It's apple season so you could well supplement the cider with juice from crab apples or other tannin-rich varieties.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I recently did a cider using Mangrove Jacks cider yeast, this has nutrients included in the pack which is an advantage.
Still it gets a sulfur smell during fermentation. The finished product is very good, one regular cider drinker and brewer commented it was the best craft brewed cider he has drank.
Nev

 

[TheBaron]

Cheers for the replies.

I've had a look at the definitive(fish) guide to cider and enjoyed the read immensely.

I'll look into yeast nutrients - it's something I'm willing to try if I can get some from my LHBS on short notice (they have weird opening hours).

Good to hear some other people have had the same symptoms and ended up with a good result.

 

[Wilkensone]

I recently did a cider using Mangrove Jacks cider yeast, this has nutrients included in the pack which is an advantage.
Still it gets a sulfur smell during fermentation. The finished product is very good, one regular cider drinker and brewer commented it was the best craft brewed cider he has drank.
Nev

Was this the same recipe as above or more complex?


Wilkens

 

[lael]

Also curious to know your recipe Nev. Always looking for a good cider recipe

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

The recipe is probably more technique than materials.
Berri apple juice is the fermentables.
I started with 1 x MJ cider yeast which I pitched into 4L of juice, I left this till it was really going strong then pitched that into another 12L of Berri Juice.
The last part of the ferment was done in a corny keg, I then transferred the finished product to another keg and left for about 3-4 weeks.
It took a while to remove the sulfur smell. I then back sweetened to taste.
Nev

 

[Mutaneer]

mixed in a brand new Bunnings water tank that had been soaked with Coopers sanitiser overnight and rinsed thoroughly. Contamination seems unlikely but I guess you never know.

I'm tipping the Sanitiser is Metabisulphate based.

I had issues with some beers smelling sulphury, as i was using it to sanitise my bottles.

I now use a food grade sanitiser from the local cleraning supplies place.
mix 1ml per litre, only needs a few minutes contact time, and it's usable straight away with no rinse needed.

 

[manticle]

I question whether the sulphury smell is caused by the apple juice lacking nutrients, for one thing because I've experienced it in other ferments anyway - my open ferment that threw up sulphury smells went down from a high gravtiy of around 1.070 right down to a gravity of around 1.009; the yeast was clearly happy!

For another thing, I don't know whether apple juice would lack nutrients. Apples are very rich and usually have wild yeasts living on them; one traditional method for making cider is to press the juice out and let it begin to ferment by itself. However, store juice is not a very good base for cider - it's selected for sweetness and not fermentation. It's apple season so you could well supplement the cider with juice from crab apples or other tannin-rich varieties.

Apple juice is well known for lacking various nutrients that make yeast happy. The presence of wild yeasts on skin is not the same as a healthy fermentation for an alcoholic beverage.

Sulphur compounds are common in beer brewing too (there are many types) and lack of sufficient nutrients can be one cause of H2S (as can infection).

 

[TimT]

Apple juice is well known for lacking various nutrients that make yeast happy.

Manticle, I hadn't heard that before; I don't think my how to make cider book - can't find it, but it's the one co-written by E. Annie Proulx - even *mentions* yeast nutrient. Are you talking about commercial apple juice, the standardised processed stuff you find in the shops? Or would this hold true for home-made apple juice too - from apples, freshly milled and crushed, skins and all? Because I'm guessing a lot of the good stuff for yeast would be on the peel.

 

[manticle]

Both. Proulx book talks about steak historically being used to rescue stalled ferments due to being nitrogen rich (she recommends against it).

 

[TimT]

Yes, I remember the steak mention My other thought was store-bought apple juice is usually pasteurised, which would further denature the juice and presumably make it less hospitable for yeast.

 

[Edgebrew]

Did you rehydrate the yeast or just sprinkle it into the fermenter? Proper rehydration helps the yeast.

Did you shake the fermenter after pitching to aerate?

 

[TheBaron]

1. Straight into the fermenter
2. No

Thanks for the advice. Some things to remember for next time I guess...

Just crossing my fingers that it's not an infection.

 

[Mutaneer]

I doubt it hurt now to even pitch in some more yeast that's going vigorously.
It should take over any nasties if they exist

My process for getting it started is this,
Add yeast and some warm water to a small bowl and keep it warm for 20-30 minutes,
I then give it about 1/4 teaspoon of some yeast nutrient (I use go-ferm) and allow it to wake up for another 20 minutes or so
And finally add in a little juice to give it a good feed for another 20 minutes.

The result is a yeast that's fully started and "hungry" to get to work straight away,

I've had good bubbling through the airlocks after only 10 hours (in Hobart so maintaining 16-20 degrees) and a very clean ferment from all my batches so far with this process.

I also feed the brew again with 1/4tsp per 5L of GO ferm after about 48 hours to make sure there's plenty of nutrients for the little fellas

 

[Greg.L]

Generally fresh pressed juice has less problems than supermarket juice. Fruit from a healthy orchard will have plenty of nitrogen if the farmer has been fertilising. In Europe apple orchards for cider are starved for N a bit so the ferment will go slower, Australia is a low nitrogen environment compared to Europe so orchards here get fertilised a fair bit. Fresh juice forums don't get a lot of comments about sulfur smells, though it is common with keeving. Keeved cider can be a little stinky by our standards.