Missing O-ring On New Kegs

[PistolPatch]

Have always had a little air bubble in my beer line but the other day it went out of control. The system is balanced and the leak is coming right from the liquid post. I have changed the disconnect to no avail. I tightened the post to no avail. So, pulled the posts apart (they're the new squat kegs) and I think there's an O-ring missing. What do you think?

First, here's a pic of of the keg to dip tube. There's an O-ring there so, no problem.



Next is a pic of the post and poppit. Once again an O-ring so no leaks there.



Here's the problem I think with the keg post to the dip tube. This is stainless on stainless with no O-ring between.



Also when you tighten the post onto the keg, it tightems down all the way to the keg so how do I even know that the O-ring in the first pic above is even sealing?

My schwarzbier is unpourable so I want this fixed now (stamping my feet and holding my breath!)

THe only solution I can think of is to add another O-ring on top of the dip tube but this means the poppit spring will be pressing straight onto this O-ring which doesn't sound great.

Any ideas? Is there an O-ring missing or is there something I just don't know?

Free schwarzbier for anyone with the answer!

Cheers
PP

 

[jgriffin]

Hey PP, the number of seals looks fine to me. That's the same seal setup as the corny kegs use.

The o-ring on the dip tube looks a little bit big and loose to me in those photo's, it shouldn't be able to drop at an angle from the shaft of the tube. Also, with a new seal you should feel the seal on the tube start to sit down as you finish tightening the post up, if it just stops, maybe the thread is wrong and it's hitting bottom before sealing??

The seals i use aren't actually o-rings, they're a strange little angled thing, and you can feel then bind on the last couple of turns, it's a pain actually as it tends to twist the pickup tube, but they seal well.

Exactly where does it leak from? Maybe a bit of grease on the post thread may seal it off.

 

[MHB]

PP
The seal is a three way junction between the SS dip-tube, the inside of the ball-lock housing and the top of the mail thread that is part of the keg.

Take a couple of turns of plumbers thread tape over the O-Ring while it is on the pipe, sort of pad the O-Ring out a bit, should fix it.

MHB

 

[pokolbinguy]

you may find that the poppet (spring part) is slightly too short and is not making a tight seal with the disconnect. To over come this get 1 or 2 small ss washers and place them underneat the poppit (so it stands on them) then screw the disconnect on the top. this will raise the poppet and hopefully seal the line.

Thats just my 2c anywa.... hope it helps... somewhere along the line

Pokolbinguy

 

[MHB]

View attachment 7372in a thousand words
MHB

 

[PistolPatch]

I owe you guys a beer just for the immediate response! Crikey Mark you gave me a fright with your pic! I thought I have nothing that looks like that thing on the left until I realised it was a roll of teflon tape - lol

Thanks JR. You said, "with a new seal you should feel the seal on the tube start to sit down as you finish tightening the post up, if it just stops, maybe the thread is wrong and it's hitting bottom before sealing??" That's what I reckon JR unless...

MHB: When you say, 'the seal is a three way junction,' does this mean the stainless to stainless bit needs to touch (like in a brass gas fitting) or am I meant to screw the post down really tight onto the keg? Tried the really tight bit and that didn't work and once again it is stainless to stainless. Thanks mate for your trouble.

Maybe Pokolbinguy has the answer? Cheers Pokolbin - been a while since I've been down your way.

EDIT: Or maybe, MHB has the answer with the teflon. Just never heard of stainless to stainless sealing before. Brass to brass - yes.

 

[vlbaby]

PP,
its not the stainless to stainless that is doing the sealing. Its the o'ring that spreads under the compression of the post that seals against the inner edges of the post.
I'd say either something is wrong and you have insufficient compression of the oring. Or perhaps the wrong o'ring is fitted. Mine has special square profiled o'rings.

MHB's idea might be worth a go for now, but i'd get the correct o'rings for a permanent fix


vl.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

PP,

I agree with vlbaby, try these:



PM me your address and if I read it tonight I'll pop a couple in the mail for you tomorrow (no charge) :beer:

PZ.

 

[PistolPatch]

So hard trying to work stuff like this out in the written word. What VL has written is really clear to me but I can't seem to convey what I can clearly see here. When I look at the set up, there is actually no rubber between the inside of the keg and the outside world! As you say, VL, I think something IS wrong. I'm pretty technical and have thought this through (like you wouldn't believe!) so it's weird.

The problem has always been there but the beer only became unpourable after I noticed the post was loose (as in finger loose) and so I tightened it with a spanner. I didn't over-tighten it but now I have purely through frustration!

So far, it seems as though I should go and get some teflon tape tomorrow and see if this works and take Fingerlickin up on his offer as he has a knack for these things. So Finger, I'll send you my address and work out a way of repaying your kindness later.

Cheers
PP

 

[poppa joe]

PP
The joys of Kegging.....
My bottles aren't leaking.......
Cheers
PJ

 

[vlbaby]

PP,
Those o'rings in FL's post look like the right ones.

If you still have problems with those, then you must have an incorrect combo of parts on the liquid post. I would imagine the post must have more internal thread than the keg has external thread, and as such the post cannot compress the dip tube and o'ring down enough to seal them off completely. ( I hope that makes sense :blink: )

Anyway, hopefully new o'rings will do the trick.

cheers

vl.

 

[PistolPatch]

Yep Vl. "I would imagine the post must have more internal thread than the keg has external thread, and as such the post cannot compress the dip tube and o'ring down enough to seal them off completely." That's exactly what I'm thinking. So, if the stainless to stainless is not a problem (which I still think it is) should I just add an extra O-ring to the dip tube?

I can screw the post on without feeling any pressure so surely something is wrong?

Thanks VL for all your help. Drving me mad this!

And Poppa, send me a PM and tell me what's been happening down your way since we last spoke. I'll send you a lnger one back!

Cheers
PP

Edit: Forgot to put in VL's quote.

 

[poppa joe]

PP
Cant help with kegging problems...Got my own..MOUNTING AND TRYING MY $20.00 BARLEY CRUSHER...Seems to work OK...Crushes good ...
Told my friend to look for another..to go to Southport...if any.
If he cant get one,,,,there isn't any....A good type of fella to know ..
As Roy Orbison sang "Anything you want i got it"..
cheers
PJ

 

[jgriffin]

So hard trying to work stuff like this out in the written word. What VL has written is really clear to me but I can't seem to convey what I can clearly see here. When I look at the set up, there is actually no rubber between the inside of the keg and the outside world! As you say, VL, I think something IS wrong. I'm pretty technical and have thought this through (like you wouldn't believe!) so it's weird.

[post="129180"][/post]​

Does this help?? You will have to forgive my really crappy artwork, but as you compress the seal, it should seal against all the following surfaces.

 

[sam]

So, if the stainless to stainless is not a problem (which I still think it is) should I just add an extra O-ring to the dip tube?

[post="129187"][/post]​

I've been doing the two o-ring on the dip tube thing and it fixes the problem.

Cheers,

Sam

 

[PistolPatch]

Does this help?? You will have to forgive my really crappy artwork, but as you compress the seal, it should seal against all the following surfaces.

[post="129438"][/post]​

JR, that's really nice of you to do that diagram. I started trying to do one and gave up because it took too long. Really appreciate you taking that trouble. Now you've posted that, I might be able to explain a little clearer what my question was. (Was thinking about everyone's posts above all day!)

The good news first though. Shwarzbier is now drinkable!

My best guess is that the seal between the inside of the keg and outside world (the red bits of JR's diagram) is totally reliant on the poppit spring forcing down. Is that right? If so, if your spring is a little soft, then that seal won't form. This would explain all the suggestions above as they pretty much increase the pressure of the spring or of that particular O-ring seal. Did I get all that right?

If so, I think I understand but it seems strange that a spring can withstand the rigours of forced carbonation.

Anyway, went to various shops today and bought O-rings, SS washers and some fibre washers that I thought might solve the problem. Totally forgot the teflon tape Mark - good on me!

Whacked an extra O-ring on the dip tube (to resemble Fingerlickin's grommet) and whacked a stainless steel washer on top of the dip tube (thanks Pokolbin.) End result - bare minumum of bubbles now.

Going to get that teflon tape and wrap it around the 'Post Inner,' I think as a bit of security.

Thanks again all,
PP

(If anyone can understand the above technical talk on a Friday night, they're doing well!)

 

[PistolPatch]

Forgot to say, I used some food grade lube as well on the rings. And also forgot my main question...

If the seal is totally reliant on that spring pressure then wouldn't most of the, 'bubbles in beer line,' threads you see here be solved by increasing that spring pressure?

 

[jgriffin]

Does this help?? You will have to forgive my really crappy artwork, but as you compress the seal, it should seal against all the following surfaces.

[post="129438"][/post]​

JR, that's really nice of you to do that diagram. I started trying to do one and gave up because it took too long. Really appreciate you taking that trouble. Now you've posted that, I might be able to explain a little clearer what my question was. (Was thinking about everyone's posts above all day!)

The good news first though. Shwarzbier is now drinkable!

My best guess is that the seal between the inside of the keg and outside world (the red bits of JR's diagram) is totally reliant on the poppit spring forcing down. Is that right? If so, if your spring is a little soft, then that seal won't form. This would explain all the suggestions above as they pretty much increase the pressure of the spring or of that particular O-ring seal. Did I get all that right?

If so, I think I understand but it seems strange that a spring can withstand the rigours of forced carbonation.

Anyway, went to various shops today and bought O-rings, SS washers and some fibre washers that I thought might solve the problem. Totally forgot the teflon tape Mark - good on me!

Whacked an extra O-ring on the dip tube (to resemble Fingerlickin's grommet) and whacked a stainless steel washer on top of the dip tube (thanks Pokolbin.) End result - bare minumum of bubbles now.

Going to get that teflon tape and wrap it around the 'Post Inner,' I think as a bit of security.

Thanks again all,
PP

(If anyone can understand the above technical talk on a Friday night, they're doing well!)

[post="129464"][/post]​

The thing is, that the gas pressure should actually help the seal, well, seal. It both pushes the poppet into the top of the post, and should also effectively apply more pressure to the O-ring, by pushing downwards on the flare on the top of the dip tube, thus effectively helping to seal itself off.

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks yet again jg and also Sam.

I received Fingerlickin's O-rings yesterday, installed them, wrapped some teflon tape around the post and then took the fridge for a bit of a test run. Was able to pour the beer into a glass this time (just) so things are improving.

Just had a look then and there's about 8 inches of gas in the beer line and when I turn the gas on it takes about ten seconds to pressurise so it's still leaking somewhere. I might take an empty keg to Ross's when I pick up hat and stubby holders and see if anything clicks to him by looking at the keg directly.

Once again really appreciate the time and trouble taken above. Fingerlickin, those O-rings are definitely superior and did improve things immensely. Bloody good of you to post them.

Many thanks
Pat

 

[vlbaby]

Sounds very frustrating PP. Are you certain that it is leaking from the post? Maybe you should try locating the leak with some soapy water. Or perhaps you could immerse the keg in a bucket of water and look for the bubbles.

vl.