Mini Mash Question

[cozmocracker]

im about to do a recipe that i got off BribieG (in style of MB), it requires a mini mash of 1kg of grain in 4 to 5 litres of water. the question concerns the amount of water, i have a 20 litre urn i thought i would use, putting grain in a bag and putting 10 litres (maybe more) in the urn ( i feel 4 or 5 lts is to little for BIAB in the urn) is the extra water going to effect anything apart from making the wort hotter and having to wait longer for it to cool. after mashing grain for 60 min i would remove bag and bring to boil and add hop additions. would the extra water help in the efficiency of the grain? can i sparge the grain in the bag by getting a jug of the wort and pouring it through the raised bag?

cheers for any thoughts

 

[Mantis]

im about to do a recipe that i got off BribieG (in style of MB), it requires a mini mash of 1kg of grain in 4 to 5 litres of water. the question concerns the amount of water, i have a 20 litre urn i thought i would use, putting grain in a bag and putting 10 litres (maybe more) in the urn ( i feel 4 or 5 lts is to little for BIAB in the urn) is the extra water going to effect anything apart from making the wort hotter and having to wait longer for it to cool. after mashing grain for 60 min i would remove bag and bring to boil and add hop additions. would the extra water help in the efficiency of the grain? can i sparge the grain in the bag by getting a jug of the wort and pouring it through the raised bag?

cheers for any thoughts

4-5 lt of water for 1kg of grain is ample. Do you have a bag that fits the 20lt urn. Heat the water to your stike temp,turn off heat, put in bag , then grain. Wrap urn in a doona, towels whatever and leave for an hour. lift bag, squeeze, begin boil

 

[cozmocracker]

is there any reason i cant use extra water?
im making a custom fit bag.
is it a good idea to sparge with the jug?

 

[Gavo]

Have a read of THIS. Particularly the last three paragraphs. From what I read, using say 10 lt of water will give you a very thinned out mash and the conversion of the starches will not properly occur. I believe it has been discussed on AHB before and the results were very low efficiency.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[cozmocracker]

cheers will read that in the morning, time to pass out!

 

[cozmocracker]

ok, now thats what i was after, thanks Gavo. so using JP's ratio of 1.5 quarts to 1 pound grain = 3.15 litres to 1 kilo of grain mashed at 67 degrees for 60 minutes. How does that sound?

now this ratio has made me ponder, if i was doing an AG beer and wanted to end up with 23 litres in the fermenter would that mean i was using over 7 kilos of grain? looking at recipes it seems that is the medium. i suppose i answered my own question there which leads to another, accounting for trub and evaporation do you use rough ratio of 3:1 at the beginning of the mash or for the final wort volume? for example, say i start with 30 liters does that mean i use 10 kilos of grain to achieve 3:1 ratio or start with 7.5 kilos of grain to achieve 3:1 ratio at the end of mash. im guessing the later, im sure there are lots of variables depending on style of beer but is this basically correct?

 

[Gavo]

I am using a grain - water ratio of approxamately 1kg to 2.5 lt. Most people use between 1kg to 2lt and 1kg to 2.5lt. Particularly in a single step mash. The ratio depends on what you are trying to achieve.

For example a recipe for 21 lt using 4.5 kg of grain:
In a three vessil setup will require about 11.5 lt of mash water in the mash tun. You will loose 1 litre of water per kg of grain due to grain soaking up the water. You will then sparge with enough water to take your kettle volume to 21 lt. So you would mash in with the 11.5 lt and then sparge with 20.5 lt of water. 11.5 + 20.5 = 32 lt take away 5 lt to grain loss you get 27lt at the start of the boil. Allowing for boil off and losses to trub you end up at a final volume of 21 lt (crossing fingers and toes).

In a BIAB (I have never done this) you could mash in with the 11.5 lt and add the rest of the volume for mashout still allowing for losses. There are others who do BIAB that would be able to answer the proceedure better and more informed then me. Have a look at this thread.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[np1962]

ok, now thats what i was after, thanks Gavo. so using JP's ratio of 1.5 quarts to 1 pound grain = 3.15 litres to 1 kilo of grain mashed at 67 degrees for 60 minutes. How does that sound?

now this ratio has made me ponder, if i was doing an AG beer and wanted to end up with 23 litres in the fermenter would that mean i was using over 7 kilos of grain? looking at recipes it seems that is the medium. i suppose i answered my own question there which leads to another, accounting for trub and evaporation do you use rough ratio of 3:1 at the beginning of the mash or for the final wort volume? for example, say i start with 30 liters does that mean i use 10 kilos of grain to achieve 3:1 ratio or start with 7.5 kilos of grain to achieve 3:1 ratio at the end of mash. im guessing the later, im sure there are lots of variables depending on style of beer but is this basically correct?

Coz,
This is just the mash ratio, most standard 23l recipes would use about 4kg grain. You would mash with say 10l water(2.5:1) possibly mash out with another say 6l then draw off your first runnings, allowing 1l per kg for absorbtion of grain would give about 12 litres.
Then you would add enough sparge water to the mash to get your 30l for the boil. (approx another 18l). Then draw this off into the kettle with the original 12l.
This is a very simplistic explaination and you are correct, there are many variables, but hopefully it gives you the idea.

Nige

Edit:- Slow, it's too early

 

[Jakechan]

Coz,
This is just the mash ratio, most standard 23l recipes would use about 4kg grain. You would mash with say 10l water(2.5:1) possibly mash out with another say 6l then draw off your first runnings, allowing 1l per kg for absorbtion of grain would give about 12 litres.
Then you would add enough sparge water to the mash to get your 30l for the boil. (approx another 18l). Then draw this off into the kettle with the original 12l.
This is a very simplistic explaination and you are correct, there are many variables, but hopefully it gives you the idea.

Nige

Edit:- Slow, it's too early

This is the sort of core info that should be in a guide-for-newbies-sticky. Simple, and to the point, no phaffing on about santising and other auxiliary stuff.
Fairdinkum, when you first start learning about AG its hard to get your head around much else.

Cheers,
Jake

 

[np1962]

This is the sort of core info that should be in a guide-for-newbies-sticky. Simple, and to the point, no phaffing on about santising and other auxiliary stuff.
Fairdinkum, when you first start learning about AG its hard to get your head around much else.

Cheers,
Jake

Jake,
Just starting out myself, I understand what you're saying. Read everything possible on this site!
But I would say rules 1,2 and three of homebrewing are Sanitise,Sanitise and Sanitise!!! Like it or not you have to keep it clean to get good beer.

Nige

 

[cozmocracker]

thanks guys for the replies, great information as always, one more question, when i sparge do i remove existing wort first, and do i raise the temp of the sparge water to make sugars more soluable or do i raise the temperature before the sparge or both. i guess thats more than one question!

 

[np1962]

thanks guys for the replies, great information as always, one more question, when i sparge do i remove existing wort first, and do i raise the temp of the sparge water to make sugars more soluable or do i raise the temperature before the sparge or both. i guess thats more than one question!

Coz,
Can be done a number of ways,
1. Drain Mash Tun and then add sparge water to raise grain temp to about 78C, stir, leave ten minutes then recirc and drain.
or
2. Add enough water to raise temp to 78C(mash out), stir recirc drain, then add rest of sparge water, stir recirc drain.

Read Palmers How To Brew and search this forum for more detailed explainations.
and more HERE

Nige

Edit:-added second link.

 

[Gavo]

From what I understand with BIAB (once again I am not very familiar with this technique) You can mashout by raising the temp and add the extra water needed. Not sure in what order. I would probably raise the temp to mashout temp then add the rest of the water. Then raise the bag out of the liquid and squeeze the remaining wort out of the grains. After that you would be ready for the boil.

Cheers
Gavo