Melanoidin Malt

[Julez]

Hi all,

just putting together my first Bohemian Pilsener recipe. I want to throw in some melanoidin malt to give a "decoction style" malt profile. I'll be doing a stepped infusion with a protein rest. Wondering though, what % should I use of this malt for the style?

I'm thinking 87% pilsener, 8% Carapils and 5% melanoidin. I'm just unsure how much will be sufficient to use, without impacting colour too severely. I'm after a fairly "classic", brewed to style beer.

Cheers

 

[neonmeate]

sounds fine to me - which pilsener malt are you using?

 

[Julez]

sounds fine to me - which pilsener malt are you using?

Unsure at this stage!

 

[Kai]

5% mel is a lot, I'd aim for closer to 2-3%. It's a very malty malt and in a pils you won't need much at all.

 

[neonmeate]

yeah on 2nd thoughts i would agree with kai too, that would be like 300g in a 22l batch... I'd halve it.

imported pilsener malt probably has enough maltiness already in it not to need the extra melanoidin.

and you should check the specs on whatever malt you choose before you decide to do a protein rest, not after...

 

[Tony]

and you should check the specs on whatever malt you choose before you decide to do a protein rest, not after...

Why?

 

[dr K]

Are there really Pilsener Malts out there that need a protein rest?
The Weyermann Bo Pils malt may benefit from a protein rest, or more so a complex mash regime but it will still produce an excellent beer single step.
A Bohemian Pils can be and usually is darker than a German Pils, in fact at the top end it can be as dark as an entry (colour) level English Bitter or even ESB.
5 % Melanoidan is not too much, in fact its about spot on.
Of course if you were decocting then 5% would be too much

K

 

[neonmeate]

Why?

cause they usually don't need em of course!
sorry to be confusing.

 

[Julez]

Thanks for the responses guys. I might go for 3% Melanoidin and see how that goes for a first crack.

Regarding the protein rest, I hadn't decided exactly which pils malt to use, but it was always going to be a European-produced variety, i.e. Weyermann. Hence the reason for the protein rest, without knowing which specific malt! Though I see Weyermann do have a Bo Pils malt and a well modified Pils malt too.

I like to do a protein rest regardless, for the benefit of added amino acid nutrients. However I think I may do further research to try to find out the degree of modification of the Bo Pils malt. The Weyermann well-modified pils malt may be more practical though... :huh:

Julez

 

[devo]

I recently used about 2.7% and found it to be a tad over the top. My next attempt will probably only be 1.5% of the grain bill.

 

[warrenlw63]

Some say protein rest some say no protein rest. Before you decide maybe read Zwickel's rather interesting blog entry. Sometimes actually doing side by side comparisons is the only way to find out.

Here

My own preference is for a protein rest (just because its what I prefer).

FWIW, I agree with Devo maybe keep the melanoidin to around 1.5% a little goes a long way.

Warren -

 

[Julez]

Some say protein rest some say no protein rest. Before you decide maybe read Zwickel's rather interesting blog entry. Sometimes actually doing side by side comparisons is the only way to find out.

Here

My own preference is for a protein rest (just because its what I prefer).

FWIW, I agree with Devo maybe keep the melanoidin to around 1.5% a little goes a long way.

Warren -

Given that I was originally going to go 100% pils malt, that may not be a bad idea. I had a quick look at Zwickel's blog. I def. agree with the tighter, moussier head you get from a protein rest - this definitely applies to a hefe anyway, from my experience.

I think for this brew, I will just go 90% Weyermann Bo Pils, 8.5% Cara Pils and 1.5% melanoidin. I will employ a protein rest of 20 mins at 52 degrees. If I were using the "well-modified" Weyermann Pils malt, I would just go a single-infusion sans protein rest, but I always tend to lean towards more classic brewing styles, that's just a personal preference

Perhaps to compare, I will brew another pilsener for my following brew, using their well-modified version of this malt and a single infusion.

 

[drsmurto]

If you are going to do a 52C rest why not use a single decoction to step it up to sacc temps..... h34r:

That way you can ditch the melanoidin. As for using large quantities of carapils, i'll leave that one right alone.

Flame suit on

 

[Julez]

If you are going to do a 52C rest why not use a single decoction to step it up to sacc temps..... h34r:

That way you can ditch the melanoidin. As for using large quantities of carapils, i'll leave that one right alone.

Flame suit on

Hi Dr,

don't want to muck about with a decoction for my first lager, but do plan on doing one down the track!

OK, what's the go with Carapils? Please don't leave me hanging

From Ray Daniels' book, it seems most people use a combo of Crystal and Carapils (though that is a type of crystal) in various proportions. I didn't see the point in using both, so figured 8% wouldn't be excessive in lieu of this. Is this over the top? I know the recommended is 3-5% of the grist or thereabouts...

I pretty much want a very light coloured Czech Pilsener, as true to style as possible. So nice and malty with plenty of Saaz, but also good body and head retention.

Julez

 

[BoilerBoy]

OK, what's the go with Carapils?

I pretty much want a very light coloured Czech Pilsener, as true to style as possible. So nice and malty with plenty of Saaz, but also good body and head retention.

Julez

You will get a fair bit of body with 8.5% for a pilsner, 2-3% would be ample, some don't use it at all.

Cheers,
BB

 

[Julez]

You will get a fair bit of body with 8.5% for a pilsner, 2-3% would be ample, some don't use it at all.

Cheers,
BB

I think I'm going to have to experiment with this myself and just learn by experience instead of keep asking you lot . Maybe instead of trying to nail it the first time, I think I will keep it simple and just do a 100% pils grist. Then I will try a future brew with some melanoidin and another one with some Carapils, etc. I guess the only way I will ever really know the contribution of each ingredient is to start with base-malt only. So that's what I'll do!

Cheers for all the commments guys, looking forward to brewing this one and will definitely refer back to this thread and your collective wisdom when it comes time to introduce those other ingredients for future brews.

Julez

 

[drsmurto]

I dont use Carapils. Just like i stopped using maltodextrin at the end of my kit making days.

It adds body and aids head retention.

Not sure why you need help with head retention on an AG beer.......

100% pils malt, step mash (52, 65, 78) gave me a nice malty pils with a solid and long lasting head. I have one lagering away now that i did a single decoction for the 52-65 step. Added maybe an hour to my brew day. Still to taste it and find out if it was worth it.

Thats just my 2 c, tell me to sod off if its uncalled for. i am far from an expert in this game!

If you read Noonans book on lagers it call for massive amounts of carapils. I thoroughly enjoyed the book and learnt a lot till i read this....

 

[Julez]

Thats just my 2 c, tell me to sod off if its uncalled for. i am far from an expert in this game!

Nope! Appreciate all the advice/suggestions/stories I can get! Cheers Dr!

Next is figuring out the hops...guess I better start a new thread for that one...

 

[drsmurto]

No need Jules - Saaz all the way for a Bo Pils! You dont have a choice

 

[kevo]

Hey everyone,

A little off topic, but glad I saw this thread, I plan to brew up an Alt from Brewing Classic Styles later in the week.

It calls for 11% aromatic, which I was told on here was melanoidan.

From what I've read, I'm worried that 11% is going to be way too much.

How will this go with the style? Any thoughts? Is this a typo in the book?

Kev