Melanoidin In Boh Pils?

[SJW]

Just wondering what the story is with Melanoidin. Other than its head retention and mouthfeel properties why do some people say it should be used in a Pils style beer if u are single infusing? This is my recipe for a nice clean summer beer I will put on tap.

#52 Boh Pilsner - Keg
Bohemian Pilsner


Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 25.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright
Boil Size: 32.05 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2500.00 gm Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 47.62 %
2500.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 47.62 %
250.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 4.76 %
50.00 gm Saaz [3.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.3 IBU
50.00 gm Saaz [3.00 %] (40 min) Hops 13.4 IBU
50.00 gm Saaz [3.00 %] (20 min) Hops 9.3 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.009 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.74 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.00 %
Bitterness: 37.9 IBU Calories: 512 cal/l
Est Color: 10.8 EBC Color: Color

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 5250.00 gm
Sparge Water: 13.31 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 71.0 C 65.0 C
10 min Mash Out Add 9.00 L of water at 95.6 C 75.6 C

 

[tangent]

didn't know about the head retention, i thought that was carapils.
it tastes good in a pils and i reckon the amount you're using should be spot on for my tastes.

 

[Hargie]

....i believe it can be used to give a 'decoction mash' style malt profile to the beer without actually having to do a decoction....

 

[andrewg]

Just wondering what the story is with Melanoidin. Other than its head retention and mouthfeel properties why do some people say it should be used in a Pils style beer if u are single infusing?

Isn't the use of melanoidin in single infusion to give a fuller malt flavour profile similar to that resulting from decoction mashing?

BTW Nice looking recipe - I'm thinking I should brew something similar for summer drinking.
cheers
HStB

 

[SJW]

Just as I thought. I might be using D Saaz yet.

 

[Screwtop]

Melanoidin does as it's name suggests, provides the qualities that are the result of the decoction process which produces melanoidins. Cara-Pils/Cara-Foam are for head etc. Malts such as Vienna and Munich malt contain high levels of melanoidin, remember seeing melanoidin described somewhere as Turbo Munich malt.

 

[tangent]

that's a good way of describing it

 

[drsmurto]

From the Grumpys brewshop site....

Here is the malt that gives you the rich decocted malt flavours that full-bodied European lagers have (without having to go to the trouble of decocting). It lends a unique red hue and suggested max per all-grain batch is 25% and requires a mash. To quote Wes Smith "it's Munich malt on steroids"

 

[blackbock]

The Weyermann site lists its main uses as: Improved taste/mouthfeel; Adjustment of beer colour (more red ) and optimisation of the mash. Presumably it has a slight pH lowering effect due to the higher kilning temperature. It does not mention anything about improving head retention. Seriously though SJW, I recommend at least a step mash (if not a decoction) for a beer of the lager kind. You won't regret it.

 

[tangent]

i agree wholeheartedly
you don't have to decoct to step mash

 

[Aaron]

Don't be scared of doing a decoction though. That is how I do all my step mashes. I find it more convenient than infusions. I mash in a esky/drink cooler so no direct heat for me. Your software calculates how much to pull then you just put it on the stove and boil it the pour it back in. I don't think you need to do it but there is no reason to be scared of a decoction.

 

[rwh]

Remember that you boil the thick part of the mash, that is, the grains plus any liquid suspending them, rather than just liquid. The liquid contains a lot of the enzymes which will be destroyed if you boil that fraction.

 

[tangent]

i use an esky too Aaron. Why don't you do stepped infusions?

 

[SJW]

What temp steps would you recomend for a Bo Pils. I was thinking 50, 62, and a mash out?

 

[tangent]

AHB seems to like to name procedures after AHB members, I'm not really sure why, but I'll go with the flow (baaaa) and call it a Zwickel mash Zwickel Step Mash?
I'm unsure why a protein rest is needed but I'm sure he would like to explain.

 

[chovain]

i use an esky too Aaron. Why don't you do stepped infusions?

Not sure about Aaron's reasons, but I only have a little esky, so step infusions for anything but a low gravity mash means I either start with too stiff a mash, or the tun is overflowing by mash out. I can't realistically hit my temperatures without decoction.

That said, when I'm doing bigger beers (1.065+) where I don't want to decoct, I'll often infusion mash up to convesion temp, then decoct for mash out. After the conversion is complete, I'm pretty sure decoction doesn't create too many melonoids (Disclaimer: IANA Chemist).

 

[tangent]

mine's a Keep Cold. I dough in THICK, then add boiling water infusions and stir like crazy. Sometimes I can't get to the temps i prefer for sparging until i drain the first runnings and do a batch sparge.

 

[Screwtop]

Why not do a decoction, it's all about learning, think I read somewhere "you're not a real brewer until you've done a decoction mash"

Before you do, DO SOME READING, it's not just a matter of pulling and boiling, you have to do a rest before denaturing the decoction and boiling it, there is a rest time associated with each decoction. Some pulls are thin and some are from the thick part of the mash, depending upon what is desired (melanoidins or heat). Adding back the boiling liquid raises the mash to your next step rest temp.

Decoction is easy enough just a PITA and time consuming, that's why Melanoidin Malt was developed to save the brewer time and give an acceptable result. Have heard Melanoidin described using toast as an example, the taste of toast comes from the melanoidins formed by toasting the bread. Toast wihout melanoidin is just a slice of bread.

Screwy

 

[tangent]

it's not just a matter of pulling and boiling

exactly! there's still sacc rests with a decoction. Best way to learn about decoctions is to find someone who knows what they're doing, then watch them and ask questions. I thought i had a handle on them until I saw DrGonzo doing a double decoction and realised i had it all arse about face.