Mashing Question

[ashley_leask]

Hi,

Going to put down my 2nd AG brew in another week or two and wanted to see what the thoughts are on this question. I've seen different people's mash processes, some of which involve stirring every 15m and some who just leave it alone. Interested to see what the experiences are, how much effeciency might be gained from stirring the mash, how much heat might be lost etc.

Overall I'm inclined to leave it alone unless there's a good reason not to.

Cheers,

Ash.

 

[bignath]

I'm a set and forget type of person.

Having said that though, it's only because i know my system well enough that i can trust it reliably to give me the results i want.

I know that from past brews, that i will lose around .5 of a degree over the course of a 60min mash, so i have no need to open and stir it. My efficiency is 75/76 percent everytime.

Half and hour ago, i just opened the tap on my mash tun (late night brew session) and took a refractometer reading when i got to boil volume - yep, the reading i got equates to 75% efficiency.

I don't know if i opened regularly and gave a stir what that would do to my efficiency but at the moment i'm not fussed. 75% is good enough for me, i like my beer and therefore don't want to change process.

Each and to their own though...

Cheers,

Nath

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

I've done both and have recently settled on an additional stir at ten minutes and then leave it alone.

My efficiency has gone up slightly a but only about 1% :angry: so really to close to call.

 

[manticle]

I stir at the beginning and when I add sparge or mash out water. That's it.

 

[argon]

This is how i do it. I add strike water only to the mash tun cover and wait for 5 min for temps

Add 1/3 of the grain give a few turns just to make sure all the grain is wet. Kinda like folding it in.
Add 1/3 of the grain give a few turns.
Add the last 1/3 of the grain give a few turns.
No stirring. I just want the grains to be wet at the correct temp. There's no real need to stir it up like a washing machine. If the grist is wet at the right temp the mash will happen as planned.

If i direct fire raise temp to mash tun i stir so that i equalise the temps throughout the bed and don't get hot spots.
If i infusion mash out i only give it a few turns again to equalise the temps.
When i batch sparge i give it a few turns again to equalise the temps after each sparge addition
If i were to fly sparge i would only stir on first addition of sparge water then leave it alone.

 

[Bribie G]

Since the mid 19th century commercial brewers have stirred their mash - "raking" - but with our smaller volumes I don't know if it would be of much benefit. I BIAB so the mash is quite runny and I do a 75 mashout at the end with some furious pumping with a paint stirrer and I reckon that would tease out any sugary goodness still hiding in the husks.

Hint: if your brewing operation is visible from the street - e.g. double garage with the doors up - then if doing furious pumping make sure you do it facing the street and not with your back to the street as it can look bad.

B)

 

[ashley_leask]

Since the mid 19th century commercial brewers have stirred their mash - "raking" - but with our smaller volumes I don't know if it would be of much benefit. I BIAB so the mash is quite runny and I do a 75 mashout at the end with some furious pumping with a paint stirrer and I reckon that would tease out any sugary goodness still hiding in the husks.

Hint: if your brewing operation is visible from the street - e.g. double garage with the doors up - then if doing furious pumping make sure you do it facing the street and not with your back to the street as it can look bad.

B)

I'll be BIABing as well, picked up my new Crown from CB yesterday. Did a half batch on the (gutless) stove top as a 1st attempt, worked OK but just too much faffing about for 12 bottles of beer, and that's all the stove would boil.

As soon as I get the last batch out of my fermenting fridge I'll brew a Dr Smurto's Golden Ale w/ Cascade in my new rig.

ETA: Thanks all for the great replies.

 

[DanRayner]

+1 for set and forget.

any slight efficiency gained through stirring in a simple home single-infusion set-up is probably going to be outweighed by the possibility that heat-loss through stirring will adversely affect your mash. And by adversely I mean not only might the temp drop to a level below one that you want but also it adds more steps that make it difficult to repeat when you do make a beer that you love and want to make again.

Commercial breweries that rake the mash do so within an enclosed, insulated mash tun or in a mashtun that is steam-jacketed thereby being keeping the mash temperature exactly where they want it.

 

[Kleiny]

Good stir at the start for mash in, making sure all is wet with no dow balls, Then leave it. generally 70-80% efficiency.

Im not really interested in chasing more efficiency after Jamils comments and the fact that i would be saving cents not dollars.

Kleiny

 

[BobtheBrewer]

.

Hint: if your brewing operation is visible from the street - e.g. double garage with the doors up - then if doing furious pumping make sure you do it facing the street and not with your back to the street as it can look bad.

B)

With your fist at near shoulder height, (trolley plus urn height), it would probably look amazing to most of the oldies up there!

 

[rude]

I give it a slight stir to start with cause thats all it needs now that I underlet my strike water.

Underletting was the best process I introduced to my mashing.

Like Manticle said I also give it a slight stir for mashout & sparge. %80 efficiency fo me.

 

[fergi]

Since the mid 19th century commercial brewers have stirred their mash - "raking" - but with our smaller volumes I don't know if it would be of much benefit. I BIAB so the mash is quite runny and I do a 75 mashout at the end with some furious pumping with a paint stirrer and I reckon that would tease out any sugary goodness still hiding in the husks.

Hint: if your brewing operation is visible from the street - e.g. double garage with the doors up - then if doing furious pumping make sure you do it facing the street and not with your back to the street as it can look bad.

B)

so you are obviously speaking from experience Bribie, 'NOT FACING THE STREET".

 

[fergi]

well i am going to do my first AG on sunday morning, i am having trouble grasping the mash part because i keep reading about all the different temps. mash out ,mash in, sparge temps, batch sparge,etc, this is how i see me doing it for a start.

4.5 kg grain into my esky/mash tun,
pour in 11 litres of 73 deg water and stir for a minute.
leave at 66 deg for 60 minutes.
drain into a bucket and put back into mash tun until it runs clear.
then drain into my boiler and drizzle 73 deg water through the mash until i have 24.7 litres.
i am not sure here but does this sound like it will work.
then when do i use the hydrometer to get my efficiency.
fergi

 

[bignath]

well i am going to do my first AG on sunday morning, i am having trouble grasping the mash part because i keep reading about all the different temps. mash out ,mash in, sparge temps, batch sparge,etc, this is how i see me doing it for a start.

4.5 kg grain into my esky/mash tun,
pour in 11 litres of 73 deg water and stir for a minute.
leave at 66 deg for 60 minutes.
drain into a bucket and put back into mash tun until it runs clear.
then drain into my boiler and drizzle 73 deg water through the mash until i have 24.7 litres.
i am not sure here but does this sound like it will work.
then when do i use the hydrometer to get my efficiency.
fergi

Yeah man, that will make beer for sure.

Just a few things i would change though....
I'd start by putting your hot water in your mash tun first and then pouring the grain in on top of it. You can do it the way you've described but i reckon it's easier to sort out the "doughball" if the water goes in first. Doughball are the potentially annoying bits of clumped together grain in a mash tun if the water doesn't reach all of the grain. Kind of like making oats with a microwave.....

The other thing i would (personally) change is the amount of water for the mash tun. Everyone will have different opinions on this but i usually like a mash thickness of 3Lt per Kg. Yours works out to 2.4lt/Kg. This is not a bad thing at all (in fact a lot of brewers mash with a thickness like this) it's just i prefer a slightly runnier one.

However, be aware that if you change your mash thickness, this will change the amount of water needed (and possibly the temp too.) of your sparge water.....

RE: Hydrometer.
Most people will take a hydrometer or a refractometer measurement as it gets close to boiling in the boiler. I use a refractometer personally but once again many don't. Just make sure that whatever you do, you correct your reading to compensate for the temperature of the sample you measured.

I am assuming your esky or mash tun has some way of keeping the grains in the tun, and allowing the wort out into your boiler?

Seriously mate, sounds like you've got your head around most of it actually. I was nervous as all hell before i did my first one and now, it's much more automatic and hugely less daunting....

Whatever you do, enjoy the process as you will only ever do your first once. You'll make beer mate, trust me.

Big Nath

 

[bradsbrew]

I only drain a litre or so to a jug and return that to the mash with the first sparge, I have never returned the whole first runnings to the mash. But I batch sparge not fly.

Cheers

Edit = I take half a cup or so from the kettle post whirlpool and throw it. Then I take a cup full and put it in the freezer to cool. After I have drained to my cubes I put the cooled wort into the hydro tube and measure for spec gravity against volume gained to measure efficiency against ingredients used.

Cheers

 

[bignath]

Yeah good point BB.

you only need to recirculate your "collected wort" (runnings) until it runs clearer. It won't be transparent obviously, it will still look beer coloured, but you'll notice a huge decrease in the amount of "floaties" after about a litre. I have a 500ml pyrex jug, and i fill this twice with runnings, each time slowly pour it back into mash tun so that you don't disturb the grain bed, and then once i've done this twice, i just let the wort fall into my boiler.

 

[fergi]

another mash query, i have tested my mash tun by measuring 10 litres of water into it,when i drain it out through my tap it leaves 2 litres in the bottom, now when i do my mash and drain it into my kettle do i tipped the esky up and get out the rest of the wort, also does it mean i have to add 2 extra litres to my mash to compensate or doesnt it make a difference, i would assume that as i sparge once i have my 24 litres or so in the kettle the remaining 2 litres in the tun will be really diluted and wont need to be recovered.???
fergi

 

[bignath]

another mash query, i have tested my mash tun by measuring 10 litres of water into it,when i drain it out through my tap it leaves 2 litres in the bottom, now when i do my mash and drain it into my kettle do i tipped the esky up and get out the rest of the wort, also does it mean i have to add 2 extra litres to my mash to compensate or doesnt it make a difference, i would assume that as i sparge once i have my 24 litres or so in the kettle the remaining 2 litres in the tun will be really diluted and wont need to be recovered.???
fergi

Are you using any brewing software to formulate your recipe? If not, i can't recommend it any highly. I use Beersmith, most people that use software, use either Beersmith or Promash.

I believe that you can tell the software how much you lose in your mash tun and your boil kettle and the program should take this into account.
I can't be sure though, as the computer i am typing this on does not have beersmith on it.

What are you using as your manifold (filter) in your mash tun? Sounds like you could be using a braid type manifold, or your tap maybe up higher than mine. I lose probably around 100ml in my mash tun assuming it's just water i was emptying. I have a copper manifold arrangement in mine and it works well.

I tip the esky up on a slight incline as it gets right to the end of collecting the runnings, just to get all i can out of it. I don't know exactly what my efficiency is but i can tell you it's very consistent. I usually just brew my house beer (a recipe i know inside out) and it always comes out the same, with volumes and gravities.

Cheers,

Nath

 

[fergi]

Are you using any brewing software to formulate your recipe? If not, i can't recommend it any highly. I use Beersmith, most people that use software, use either Beersmith or Promash.

I believe that you can tell the software how much you lose in your mash tun and your boil kettle and the program should take this into account.
I can't be sure though, as the computer i am typing this on does not have beersmith on it.

What are you using as your manifold (filter) in your mash tun? Sounds like you could be using a braid type manifold, or your tap maybe up higher than mine. I lose probably around 100ml in my mash tun assuming it's just water i was emptying. I have a copper manifold arrangement in mine and it works well.

I tip the esky up on a slight incline as it gets right to the end of collecting the runnings, just to get all i can out of it. I don't know exactly what my efficiency is but i can tell you it's very consistent. I usually just brew my house beer (a recipe i know inside out) and it always comes out the same, with volumes and gravities.

Cheers,

Nath

i havent used a program Nath, i am doing smurtos glolden ale, i have a running sheet from beerbelly with all calcs already done, i had a look at beersmith as i have it on my computer but there are a few things that i am not sure of when filling in the program, anyway i will work that out one day when i need to formulate a recipe, my mash tun is an esky that i made a pvc manifold in side of it.sunday is D day, i will start early in the morning to allow for the mistakes and hassles i will probably encounter.i did post a few pics about 18 months ago of the gear that i have made up including my mash tun but i cant remember where i posted,
cheers fergi

 

[np1962]

Fergi,
What is the batch size you are looking to get into your fermenter?
If your doing a 22-23 litre batch then 24.7 liters in the kettle is not enough. You need to allow for boil off and losses to trub etc.
As a guide I start with 30.6 litres to finish with 22 litres.
Nige