Looking for feedback on a lager recipe

[beerandgarden]

Looking for feedback on this recipe that I've put together with ingredients that I have on hand. I haven't brewed many lagers and I'm not so familiar with the various lager styles, I'm more into hoppy ales. My goal is to do a lager with a bit more hop flavour than typical lagers, I'm not so concerned with brewing within specific style guidlines. I have some halertau and Pacifica (aka Pacific hallertau) hops which I'm thinking would be suited to a lager. But I've never brewed with these hops and no idea how these come out when used more liberaly in late additions. I also have another 100g pk of Pacifica pellets available if this recipe can handle more hops, maybe flameout and/or dry hopping? I have some Munich I and II malts that I'd like to use but not quite sure how much would be a good amount. I've gathered that the lagers featuring Munich tend to be more malt focused with minimum hops so I'm wondering how munich does in a more hoppy beer. Also I've never used Mangrove Jacks - Bohemian Lager Yeast - M84. Any feedback greatly appreciated - Cheers, Aidan
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.000
Total Hops (g): 160.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.047 (°P): 11.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.012 (°P): 3.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.62 %
Colour (SRM): 4.8 (EBC): 9.5
Bitterness (IBU): 35.1 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
4.000 kg Pilsner - Wyermann Floor-Malted Bohemian (80%)
0.600 kg Munich I - Wyermann (12%)
0.200 kg Munich II - Wyermann (4%)
0.200 kg Wheat Malt (4%)

Hop Bill
----------------
30.0 g Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet (2.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)
30.0 g Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet (2.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (1.3 g/L)
40.0 g Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet (2.8% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (1.7 g/L)
60.0 g Pacific Hallertau Leaf (5.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (2.6 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
0.1 g Koppafloc @ 15 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 67°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 12°C with MJ - Bohemian Lager Yeast - M84

 

[Parks]

I am by no means any authority but I reckon the malt looks good. I reckon your hopping rate might be too high though.

IBUs are good, just the late hops I feel will dominate. Someone told me 1.25gm per litre of late hops for a lager. Can't remember who, but I did that in my latest lager and they were very prominent.

 

[danestead]

Looks like pilsner hopping and ibu rate to me. Is it a pilsner you are attempting to make?

 

[NealK]

I would mash at 65 with a mash out at 75 for 10 mins. I would also do a 90 minute boil with all that pils malt.
my 2c.

 

[beerandgarden]

I am by no means any authority but I reckon the malt looks good. I reckon your hopping rate might be too high though.

IBUs are good, just the late hops I feel will dominate. Someone told me 1.25gm per litre of late hops for a lager. Can't remember who, but I did that in my latest lager and they were very prominent.

As I said I'm aiming for a hoppy lager and not too concerned with fitting into some style box. I'm aware hopping rate is much higher than a typical lager/pilsner but what I'm wondering is if such late hopping with hallertau and pacifica would be good or bad?

 

[beerandgarden]

Looks like pilsner hopping and ibu rate to me. Is it a pilsner you are attempting to make?

You could call it an extra hoppy pilsner but as I said I'm not too concerned with fitting a particular style. My objective is to do a lager that will appeal to a hoppy ale lover.

 

[beerandgarden]

I would mash at 65 with a mash out at 75 for 10 mins. I would also do a 90 minute boil with all that pils malt.
my 2c.

I already have 90 mins down for the boil. I picked 67 for my mash temp because if I miss it by a degree or 2 I won't be too low. I do BIAB so I don't mash out, I just pull the bag after the hour of infusion. Why is mash out at 75 so important?

 

[Blind Dog]

If you can't easily mash out, don't worry about it a lot of homebrewers just skip it. the possible benefits are debated back and forth as are various mash schedules. For me the biggest benefit was an increase in efficiency as the increased temp solubilises the mash making it easier to extract the sugars. It also slows and then stops enzyme activity, fixing the sugar profile

 

[Parks]

As I said I'm aiming for a hoppy lager and not too concerned with fitting into some style box. I'm aware hopping rate is much higher than a typical lager/pilsner but what I'm wondering is if such late hopping with hallertau and pacifica would be good or bad?

I can't comment on the hops you are using but the Motueka one I have just done was 1.25gm/L late and I would definitely not want it any stronger. Could just be that hop, not sure.

For me the biggest benefit was an increase in efficiency as the increased temp solubilises the mash making it easier to extract the sugars.

This is definitely true.

It also slows and then stops enzyme activity, fixing the sugar profile

This isn't so true. The enzymes will continue to work at 75 for sure. You will be getting more conversion from your remaining grain but it will be more dextrinous (long chain, less fermentable). A short rest will also contribute to better head retention.

 

[Blind Dog]

This isn't so true. The enzymes will continue to work at 75 for sure. You will be getting more conversion from your remaining grain but it will be more dextrinous (long chain, less fermentable). A short rest will also contribute to better head retention.

I did say it slows then stops. Even at 65C alpha amalyse stops working after 2 hours or so. At typical mash out temps, that cessation should be more rapid, everything else being equal. Personally, I usually include a short rest at 72C which I've found aids head retention, and mash out at 78 for at least an hour. That said, my readings would indicate that when it comes to mash schedules there are at least a gazillion perfect schedules

And now we're way off topic

 

[manticle]

75 is where beta is destroyed (as opposed to denatured). 80 is where alpha is destroyed ( not denatured).

 

[Jkpentreath]

Sounds fine, not what the Munich 2 is in there for. Isn't it used in brown ales? I put 5% in and amber and it turn it into a nutty bronze. Wasn't real good. Good luck