Long term party pumps and oxidation.

[Dave70]

Can anyone see problems using this basic principle long term (as in say a month or however long it takes you to drain a keg)) in regard to spoiling the beer?
I'm not that desperate to save CO2, but why use it when you don't have to? It's easy enough to rig up you own simple version - and I did last weekend when the gas ran out with a bike pump. Obviously this system is aimed at short term applications, but I guess in theory, if you bulk primed your kegs and pressurized them with a hand pump, you could do away with gas altogether. Filtering the air on the intake side may also be a consideration.

Huh?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I feel an experiment brewing.

 

[tallie]

Can anyone see problems using this basic principle long term (as in say a month or however long it takes you to drain a keg)) in regard to spoiling the beer?

Yes, it will oxidise the beer, causing it to stale rapidly (as in, within days). Depending on the beer, it will end up developing a taste like paper/cardboard, caramel, and/or soy-sauce.

Do you have any beer left over from the weekend that you pressurised with the bike pump? If you do, try tasting it and see what it's like - it should give you an idea.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Yes, it will oxidise the beer, causing it to stale rapidly (as in, within days). Depending on the beer, it will end up developing a taste like paper/cardboard, caramel, and/or soy-sauce.

Do you have any beer left over from the weekend that you pressurised with the bike pump? If you do, try tasting it and see what it's like - it should give you an idea.


Ah! Soy sauce! Now I know what was wrong with the very first pilsner urquell I tried many moons ago (I just thought I wasn't "educated" in beer enough then!!! Funnily enough having been to the brewery and tried the real deal is probably my favorite seasonable beer, sorry for OT

 

[Dave70]

Yes, it will oxidise the beer, causing it to stale rapidly (as in, within days). Depending on the beer, it will end up developing a taste like paper/cardboard, caramel, and/or soy-sauce.

Do you have any beer left over from the weekend that you pressurised with the bike pump? If you do, try tasting it and see what it's like - it should give you an idea.

Yeah I do. Luckily not much. And I now have plenty more.
I did attempt to purge the air out by and even giving the keg bit of a swirl. We'll see.

Forgive me. But atmospheric pressure was preventing me from drinking. I had to act.

 

[of mice and gods]

Don't worry Dave, Lemmy would have done the same thing. You can't let a lack of pounds per square inch stop you from drinking!

But from my understanding the problem seems to be that of oxidising when you add air to an airless environment.. probably gets worse as the keg goes down and their is more air and other bits by volume. Maybe the beer would release some c02 from suspension that could then reform the protective barrier?

In short, don't know but keen to know your test results

Al

 

[squirt in the turns]

I'd be very interested to hear if your jury-rigged solution has had a noticeable affect on flavour in the week since you used it, Dave. Cask conditioned ales served according to traditional notions of what qualifies as a "real ale" aren't served under CO2 pressure and so start to oxidise as soon the the cask is tapped. This is part of the fun for real ale fans, as the oxidation does interesting things to the beer before it does bad things to it. Most sources suggest that a pub has about 2 or 3 days before the oxidised flavours ruin the beer. Of course it will depend on any individual's sensitivity to and perception of those flavours. Soy sauce beer does sound kinda gross though.

 

[Dave70]

I'd be very interested to hear if your jury-rigged solution has had a noticeable affect on flavour in the week since you used it, Dave. Cask conditioned ales served according to traditional notions of what qualifies as a "real ale" aren't served under CO2 pressure and so start to oxidise as soon the the cask is tapped. This is part of the fun for real ale fans, as the oxidation does interesting things to the beer before it does bad things to it. Most sources suggest that a pub has about 2 or 3 days before the oxidised flavours ruin the beer. Of course it will depend on any individual's sensitivity to and perception of those flavours. Soy sauce beer does sound kinda gross though.

Pleased to report, none whatsoever.
Pretty much polished off the last of it Saturday night with a mate. A picky mate.
Keep in mind, I only had air pumping beer from it for a few hours and disconnected it soon as I was finished. It worked in a pinch, but the evidence is clear that you wind up with a rooted batch if you expose it to long.

 

[MaltyHops]

... Maybe the beer would release some c02 from suspension that could then reform the protective barrier?

The only way CO2 form a protective barrier in situations like this is when there is a continous release of CO2 (lik eduring active primary fermentation or a leaky CO2 bottle in a pit) and surrounding gas above the beer can escape. Otherwise CO2 and O2 in the keg will mix together and the O2 will get to the beer.


Reference: Legend of CO2 Heaviness - jump to the Conclusion section.

Also has implication for trying to flush keg headspace with CO2 - I think this still works but need to flush and purge a few times to get the level of O2 in a keag to go down.