Logistics of bigger batches?

[mr_wibble]

G'day,

After a very long double-brew session, I'm keen to do double and maybe triple batches.

I don't think I can change my brewing time (half of which is cleaning time), but theoretically I can brew bigger batches and therefore almost double the output for the same time input. I realise bringing 2x the amount of liquor up to temp will take a bit longer, but a 1 hour boil of 20/40/60 litres is still only one hour.

However one of the things that concerns me is moving around the fermenters etc.
It's easy enough to lift a 20 litre fermenter, but I don't even want to try 40 or 60 litres.

What do you guys do ... just pump it though a series of tubes?

Does a 60 litre fermenter fit in a little (aldi) chest freezer?

Which pump do I want?

cheers,
-kt


EDIT: grammar

 

[Diesel80]

I brew doubles. I ferment in 2x 30s. I also cube the brews and no chill them.
I have a fridge that can fit 2x 30s side by side. I ferment and cold crash in the same fridge.

Extra time taken on brew day is heatingthe extra water to strike temp and then boil. I speed it up by using gas burner and electric and now time taken is same as previous single batches.

80l pot I use.

Cheers
D80

 

[VP Brewing]

^^^ same here.
I went from keggle and 10jet mongo to 80L pot and 4 ring burner.
All the times were pretty much exactly the same.
2x30L fermenters in the same fridge.
Gives you the option of different hops in the cube or a different yeast in each fermenter.

 

[user 35653]

I do doubles and probably added on about 30-40 mins to my brewday.

I've got:
40L crown urn for sparge and HEX (Takes about 65 mins to get to temp)
50L Keggle Mashtun (Is fine for upto 13kg or so of malt)
100L SS Kettle (I use this also to heat additional sparge water which I transfer back into the urn once I've mashed in, from mashout/sparge to boil is about 35 mins using a 3800w element)

Ferment in 2 x 30L fermenters which fit in one fridge - bought secondhand for $50

I've got a KK pump which I use to mash in, recirculate through the hex, sparge, transfer to the kettle, whirlpool and push through the plate chiller.

 

[Yob]

Triple batches regularly...

Cubes...

 

[AntonW]

I brew sextuple batches and there were a few logistical challenges to overcome.

I'm not a weakling, but I'm not really that strong either.

Overall, heating and cooling take a bit longer, but overall I think it's a pretty efficient process. A brew day is about 8 hours (including taking everything out of the garage, setting it up and cleaning up and putting it away). Kegging then takes another 2 hours. I use about 16-20kg of grain, and 100g to goodness knows how much hops. And 1/2 a bottle gas. So, for 10 hours of my time and about $120, I get 6 full kegs. This works out to $20 and 1hr 40 min of my time (which of course is free because I like making beer) for a keg. I only need to brew every second or third month. Admittedly, I don't brew many 'experimental' beers, but then, I brew my beer for drinking not experimenting.

It took a while to get to this though. For a couple of years I made 5 litre batches on the stove, 2 or 3 times a week.

Here are my reccomendations:

Banjo burners are better than mongolian burners, by far. And more powerful than 3 or 4 ring burners. But, the simplest is just to use multiple 2200W kegking elements. They're alright these days and you can hook them up to all the different circuits in your house (or unplug your stove for the day).

The kaixin pumps (possibly with a stainless head) should do you fine.

I have 2*60 litre fermenters and two fermentation fridges.
I fill the fermenters on a steel trolley that's about the same height as the fridges. I can get my arms around a fermenter, lift it off the trolley and then down into a fridge. Straight back the whole time. Very simple operation, mostly my legs doing the work. You might be suprised how manageable this is - I've never dropped one or come close. I couldn't do this with a chest freezer.

If my fridges were closer to where I brew, I'd just put the fermenter in the fridge and then pump the wort into the fermenter.

If I were using a chest freezer (which I've done in the past) I'd siphon or pump the wort into and back out of the fermenters. Don't really reccomend this because it's a bit fiddly, but it works.

And finally, dry yeast is worth buying in 500g bricks if you go down this path.

Cheers.

 

[S.E]

The Keg King kaixin pumps are good value. If your brewery is not too far from your fermenting fridge you could put the fermenter in the fridge and pump the wort through a chiller straight into it.

I have a 10m length of silicone hose that I intend to use for this when I get around to moving the brewery closer to the fridge. At the moment I carry the 60l fermenter carefully to the fridge but wouldn’t want to try lifting it in and out of a chest freezer.

 

[troopa]

I double batch BIAB and regularly do a double double which takes about 14 hours all up. This is with a 2400w element.

This gives me 4 kegs
Also I use the 23L cubes and can fit 4 in the fridge at once

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Me too. 38lt batches = 2 kegs. Only have to brew half as often and its basically the same time and effort spent on brew day as a single batch.
I use a 16lt kettle to heat mash and sparge water on the stove (saving your bottled gas). Start boiling from the first run off in 55lt Keggle while adding the following sparging etc will minimise foaming too. The choice of a 60lt fermenter for the lot or split into 2 X 30lt for different options of yeasts etc as mentioned.

add to that: I can gently drag a 40lt brew across the floor then confess to lifting it up onto the racking bench which is not advisable really... -_-

 

[Helles]

Made something like this to move fermentors



May also need to add extra time to the mash
I found when i went from 60lts to 80lts i needed to a longer mash to fully convert
I now mash for 2 hrs to get full conversion of 20 kgs of grain for 100-140 lts depending on gravity

 

[Cannibal Smurf]

For the reasons you mentioned Mr Wibble, I upsized to a larger system. I have a similar brew day to AntonW.

I have a 120L kettle with a 3.6kW element, which I also use as a main HLT. I fill this the night before brewing, wake at 5am and flick the power on then go back to sleep until 7 (by which time it's normally at about 80c). I transfer what I need to my mashtun and the rest goes into a 40L urn (secondary HLT) to stay warm for sparge.

I either ferment in 4 x 25L fermenters if I want to utilize a variety of yeasts or 2 x 60L fermenters for primary and then 4 x 25L secondary/dry hop/CC'ing for my IPA's.

The 60L fermenters are a PITA to move by yourself BTW.

 

[Eagleburger]

I got 6000w in my double and 2400w in the single which is supplemented with an OTS 2400. I do either a double or a double+single starting at 6pm and cleaned and showered at 11pm. That includes 90min mash and boil. Gonna start using a timer so it is at mash temp when I get home from work. That should see me in bed at 10.30.

 

[Screwtop]

Have been double batch brewing for 6 years with the occasional low gravity triple batch. Having two fermentation fridges helps, I use 25 and 30L fermenters so I can manage moving them around. Ideally I would like to have an 80L conical fermenter with temp control and get rid of one ferm fridge. Could pump to the fermenter using the march pump on the brew rig and use Co2 to move the beer post fermentation.

Larger batches require almost the same cleaning time, so less effort and brewdays required if you have a busy work schedule.

Screwy

 

[contrarian]

I have a 70L pot and BIAB. I do 20, 30 or 40L batches regularly and have gone larger on occasion. I have 15, 20 and 25L cubes that I mix and match to suit.

I brew when I can and then have cubes lined up when I have fermenting space. The advantage of having cubes is you don't have to ferment both batches of he same wort at the same time and variety is the spice of life!

I use a burner similar to a spiral burner and a high flow reg but a medium flow reg would do the job or electric if you have the juice to run enough elements.

Bigger batches is the way forward and it doesn't have to be a logistical nightmare at all.

 

[Mr B]

As above in general.

I BIAB, used to use a 50l keggle and do 25l batches, now have a 90l pot and do 50l batches and it takes minimal more time. Only ramp times really.

I cube, fill two, and ferment in 30l bunnings square containers. Usually different 0 minute hops in each. Often different yeast for each cube when fermenting.

The 44 Gal stainless drums are tempting for maxi batches............

(Na, the 3v will be for that....when I get around to ordering the bits...)

 

[Brewman_]

If you don't have a heap of fermenter capacity, cubes are a good option. Great also with Brew days with mates who can take a fermenter and a cube and do their own. So I split this afternoon's brew with 3 mates.

My last brew day was; out of 2 100L Pots, plus a decent size HLT (40L)
85L Hefeweizen ( 2 x 25L Cubes, 2 x 17.5L cubes)
85L Coopers Pale ( 2 x 25L Cubes, 2 x 17.5L cubes)

The brewing calculations start at the cubes, and work backwards.

 

[Killer Brew]

80l pot I use.

 

[Coldspace]

I double batch in the grain father. Heaps better , can get 9 kg grain in so perfect for doubles upto standard ales and lagers. Just did a double pilsener batch sarvo, into 2 x 15 ltr cubes. Approx can fit 16 ltrs in each. Tommoz into 2 fermenters with another 4 ltrs of water each. Gets me 2 full kegs at around 5 to 5.5 %.

 

[mr_wibble]

Thanks for all the replies.

I supidly did not consider simply using multiple smaller fermenters.

cheers,
-kt

 

[pist]

100L pot and also a 50L keggle here. Can crank out triple full volume biabs on a brew day if i run both rigs simultaneously, the single batch rig rarely gets used these days though