Liab - Lauter In A Bag!

[MarkBastard]

This thread is god damn insane.

 

[mikesnothere]

Clear wort does not equal clear beer necessarily.

Cloudy wort does not necessarily mean cloudy beer.

Certain yeasts can produce clearer beer and fall out better.

Are you using whirfloc properly? And letting it sit for long enough after the boil?

Are you using finings once fermentation is complete?

This gives me the clear beer coupled with continual cold conditioning once carbed.

Who says BIAB makes cloudy/hazy beer?

If you measure your efficiencies at each step then you will learn more about your system.

Are you trying to tell me that brewing is a complex system with many variables and no simple "one size fits all" solutions? Cause I won't believe you.

Yes I know how to use flocculant, I have no need to use additional finings post fermentation, as my beer is already where I want it.

As a general rule of thumb, the more shit you put in, the more shit you get out. Failing to do a proper lauter pre boil means you are putting more shit in. Yes, you can get very serviceable results with BIAB, but it is not the be all and end all of brewing. I, personally, prefer the quality of beer I now produce over the BIAB method I was using before. Not only is the clarity better, but there are less undesirable flavours sneaking through.

And I happen to enjoy all facets of beer to be as good as possible, flavour, aroma, mouth feel, appearance.

My system is pretty simple, and I know pretty well what's happening where. I have no unexpected loss or gains in efficiency, so there is no need investigate what's not wrong. I know potential of grain going in, moisture content of grain, water added & water lost/evaporated at each stage. I know final volumes and gravity. It is therefore incredibly easy to look back over the process, and say "Yep, it all does exactly what it's supposed to". What more is there to learn?

 

[Markbeer]

I think we need more input from more experienced brewers.

And yes, I am saying brewing is complex.

Try then to reproduce each beer in the world exactly with your system shown on page 1?

EG, different fermenter depths and widths change a beer even.

Are you trying to tell me that brewing is a complex system with many variables and no simple "one size fits all" solutions? Cause I won't believe you.

Yes I know how to use flocculant, I have no need to use additional finings post fermentation, as my beer is already where I want it.

 

[mikesnothere]

And yes, I am saying brewing is complex.

Try then to reproduce each beer in the world exactly with your system shown on page 1?

Sorry, that was a little sarcasm on my part. Just trying to lighten the mood.

 

[Nick JD]

Everyone should only make beer the same way as the experts.

EDIT: might have been a little bit of sarcasm in my post too.

 

[manticle]

As cryptic as he is, I agree with drK.

What mike has done seems fine and although clarity of wort and clarity of beer aren't necessarily related, there are certain things that are best left behind (supposedly, according to the experts).

If it works for you Mike then good stuff. There are some biabers who do, rightly or wrongly, concern themselves with the turbidity of their wort so this maybe something for them. Obviously not simple, single vessel BIAB as originally designed but that is nothing new either.

Mike: Could you not do usual biab in one pot, then run off into lauter tun through another (to counter the possible 'direct heating/hot spot grain bed thingy). Might even give clearer wort.

Everyone should read about lautering (using the links Mike provided to start) before commenting on why this idea won't/shouldn't/can't/doesn't work for its intended purpose.

 

[Markbeer]

I have re-read this thread.

Mike, you are pouring the entire mash including grain bill into fermenter for lautering.

Anyone, is there an issue with aerating the wort/mash by pouring it in this way?

I remember reading this was not ideal and always try to minimise splashing of the mash. Different to HSA of course.


Mark

 

[manticle]

Actually the risk, if there is one, is to do with HSA as the mash is hot.

My understanding was that mike was gently ladling with a small saucepan, in which case you can limit the aeration. Using a siphon or hose would be better still.

 

[manticle]

Mike: Could you not do usual biab with a bag in one pot, then run off into lauter tun through another bag (to counter the possible 'direct heating/hot spot grain bed thingy). Might even give clearer wort.

Forgot a couple of bits that actually make this post make any sense.

 

[mikesnothere]

Forgot a couple of bits that actually make this post make any sense.

I was scratching my head there for a sec.
I could, but it's not a problem I really have, so I don't.

And you're right about the saucepan, although I adopted that because I didn't fancy the idea of pouring a great big pot of hot mash straight into another big pot, especially as I'd probably have to climb up on the bench to get the leverage, and then I'd still probably throw my back out. And yeah, a siphon or tap/hose would be better still - as long as they were big enough to not get clogged with barley husks.

 

[manticle]

Yeah, suggestion more for others following this thread and trying to relate it to BIAB than for you.

Should have asked 'could one not..........' then pondered for a bit, scratched my chin, smoked my pipe and adjusted my monocle.

You found a method that works for your intended purpose and shared it with others. The method makes sense in terms of existing brewing techniques as well so not sure where all the consternation came from. I do live in a worm farm though. We have small tractors.

 

[Deebo]

Assuming I cant be stuffed with multiple vessels.. would I see any noticable gain in clarity (or reduction in trub) by recirculating through the biab bag in an urn?
E.g. drain wort out the urn tap and pour over the top of the grain in the bag?

I seem to remember reading this would have problems with channeling and wort running out the sides of the bag, but if it is resting on the bottom of the urn the grain should sort of be pushing up against the sides like the bucket method?

I have a cake rack holding the grain bag off the exposed element.

 

[MHB]

What was proposed in the OP is basically just a cheap Lauter Tun (not MLT LT), with the bag being used instead of a false bottom. Moving the mash from a Mash Tun to a Lauter Tun is a simple and common enough practice, the only point of concern would be if you were trying for high efficiency.
To achieve commercial standards of extract recovery you need really good even flow of the sparge water through the grain bed, with a bag rather than a false bottom its going to be difficult to achieve. There wouldnt be any problem if you recirculate long enough in achieving clear runnings, I think a batch sparge would be the ideal answer, run off, refill stir and rest for 10-15 minutes, recirculate until clear and draw second runnings, should be more efficient than no sparge and only marginally less efficient than a conventional sparge.
Mark