Lagering Enquiry...

[Noxious]

Hi everyone,
Just got a few quickies on lagering for those that have had success in this sort of thing.

I have been brewing ales all summer but now its starting to cool down (quickly!!) I am thinking of doing some lagers...
Now what is the process for lagering?

Ferment, Bottle....then?
Do I wait 2 weeks for carbonation before this 3-7 weeks of 'lagering' or just straight in the fridge after bottling?
I am mainly an extract brewer who uses carb drops if that helps with answers..

I have been using Safale-US05 (56) for my ales and am interested in also maybe lagering them aswell...just to get a bit of a smoother taste for my golden ales. This brings me to my other question, will the ale yeast be able to do its thing under the lagering temperatures?
I know lager yeasts work down to 10C or something along those lines but will the ale yeast (15C)??

Cheers guys happy brewing for winter!!

 

[Adamt]

Lagering is best done before bottling, the whole batch is racked to another fermenter (some people use cubes for this) and kept at <4C for some period of time. The beer must be kept still to allow sedimentation, and keeping the whole batch together allows more yeast to access more beer for conditioning.

I'm not sure about the ale yeasts actually conditioning like a lager yeast does, but the floc/sedimentation of yeast may aid clarity and change the flavour profile.

 

[matti]

For 1st time lager brewer i would suggest this.

Get two sachets of dry lager yeast and pitch at 16 degrees or lower if possible.
Aerate your wort the best you can using the most sanitary method you can think of.
I know some guys who use high pressure garden hose to top up the fermenter.

I pitch two sachets of W-34/70 sachets that I have re-hydrated into a thick cream for 30 minutes.

Pitch it into the wort and aerate to buggery.
If you are strong lift the 1st fermenter and pour it into second fermenter really fast.

Allow to ferment as between 9-12 degrees for 7-10 days.
check with hydrometer it should read 2/3 of OG. About 1.022

Bring the beer to about 16 degrees for 2 days
That I.e. OG 1.044
estimate final OG 1.009.

Rack it silently to second sanitary fermenter and allow to ferment out.

If you haven't got a fridge to lager it i suggest you bottle it.
Other wise bring to as close to zero for 2 weeks then bottle.


Once in bottle allow it at least for 6 weeks around 8-14 degrees.
Lager take longer to carbonize and the yeast sediment need to clean up all off flavour when you bottle.

If you keg after second fermentation fill your keg and lager it there in fridge under pressure for about two weeks.

this is just skimming the top of lager brewing and ther are several other opinions on what is the correct way.

But i have had successful clean lager following this regime and it takes about 3 month from brewday until the beer is ready to drink.
Good luck.

 

[Noxious]

Thanks guys,
I dont have a 2nd fermenter to rack to currently so I was sort of wondering if it was plausible to lager in the bottle and whether it is preferable to do this before bottle carbonation or after?
I dont know what im talking about by the way....
lol
Cheers

 

[razz]

Thanks guys,
I dont have a 2nd fermenter to rack to currently so I was sort of wondering if it was plausible to lager in the bottle and whether it is preferable to do this before bottle carbonation or after?
I dont know what im talking about by the way....
lol
Cheers

Storage may be a problem Noxious. You could keep the bottles for the first 2-4 weeks at room temp and then refrigerate them until ready to drink.

 

[kabooby]

I think you would be better of Lagering in primary than in the bottles. Lagering helps the yeast to floc out of the beer to present a crisp clear beer. If you are doing this in the bottle than it is still in the beer.

If you dont have a second vessel chill your primary to 1C and leave it for about 2 weeks. Then warm up and bottle

Kabooby

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I think you would be better of Lagering in primary than in the bottles. Lagering helps the yeast to floc out of the beer to present a crisp clear beer. If you are doing this in the bottle than it is still in the beer.

If you dont have a second vessel chill your primary to 1C and leave it for about 2 weeks. Then warm up and bottle

Kabooby

At this stage it doesn't sound as if you have the equipment to lager. Every years there is a plethora of debate on whether smaller homebrewers can get any significant benefit out of lagering, or whether until you have the right refrigeration storage capacity and facilities, you are really just mucking around.

With winter, definitely use lager yeasts to brew at lower temperatures. Take note of minor things different between ale and lager yeasts. They throw off different tastes and smells but essentially do the same job. Carb your bottled beers normally (6 -8 weeks at 17C +) and whack back in fridge for a few weeks. See what difference (if any) you can detect.

Happy brewing.

 

[Adamt]

Every years there is a plethora of debate on whether smaller homebrewers can get any significant benefit out of lagering, or whether until you have the right refrigeration storage capacity and facilities, you are really just mucking around.

Huh?

There's no debate about it. If you lager your whole batch together, and syphon carefully off of the cake (whilst the beer is still cold) you WILL get less yeast in your finished product, which for some beers is definitely significant.

Besides, you've been here less than a year, how do you know what happens on an annual basis?

 

[hughman666]

Thanks guys,
I dont have a 2nd fermenter to rack to currently so I was sort of wondering if it was plausible to lager in the bottle and whether it is preferable to do this before bottle carbonation or after?
I dont know what im talking about by the way....
lol
Cheers

Before you even look at lagering, go to your LHBS and get a 2nd fermenter. ~$35 will sort you out. it's a minimal investment. get it done.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Huh?

There's no debate about it. If you lager your whole batch together, and syphon carefully off of the cake (whilst the beer is still cold) you WILL get less yeast in your finished product, which for some beers is definitely significant.

Besides, you've been here less than a year, how do you know what happens on an annual basis?

Perhaps a little unnecessary?

Edit: Also to add, I got a 30L water container from bunnings for less than $15 from memory, they have the same tap as a fermenter, all you need to do is drill a hole in the lid for your grommet.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Huh?

There's no debate about it. If you lager your whole batch together, and syphon carefully off of the cake (whilst the beer is still cold) you WILL get less yeast in your finished product, which for some beers is definitely significant.

Besides, you've been here less than a year, how do you know what happens on an annual basis?

Adamt

I asked this same question last year when I was at the same stage of brewing as what Noxious seems at. In response to the answers given in that thread I also did a fair bit of searching through old AHB threads. (there is a search button that allows you to find answers for the life of this site). It doesn't matter if I have been on the site for a day or since its inception, the same results arise, allowing me to say that as new people come to the AHB every year, this question has been asked on a regular basis.

The

debate on whether smaller homebrewers can get any significant benefit out of lagering, or whether until you have the right refrigeration storage capacity and facilities, you are really just mucking around.

has occured regularly also is not definitely answered by your comment

If you lager your whole batch together, and syphon carefully off of the cake (whilst the beer is still cold) you WILL get less yeast in your finished product, which for some beers is definitely significant.

. Lagering is much more than whacking a cube of wort in a fridge.

There is great joy in acquiring new knowledge in homebrewing, or else we wouldn't have the broad range of contribution and contributors on this site. I have acquired a great deal of information off this site, a lot I can't use directly due to limitation of equipment but more importantly the simple fact that I don't wish use that knowledge.

Noxious, I make a comment that at this stage of your brewing progression, learn a lot more about "genuine" lagering and not just about sticking a cube in a fridge. Take Adamt's and subsequent advice about getting a second fermentor or cube and learn why you should incorporate transferring your wort off the yeast cake. Read about which yeasts work best when you leave them on the yeast cake. Work out which yeasts are recommended for what treatment. For instance, Wyeast European Ale Yeast is recommended that you treat as a lager yeast and leave the wort in the fridge for an extended time. Other ale yeasts don't work that way, but the cold storage will clear your beer out further like Adamt said.

Keep reading AHB and keep asking questions.

Happy Brewing