Kriek Recipe

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*hop*cone*

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Can any one direct me to a good recipe for "Kriek" ? Furthermore can anyone tell me about this beer. I guess it is a lambic of some type, forgive my ignorance please.

Cheers,

*Hop*CoNe*
 
Well... you're kind of asking a whole lot of questions here, but let's see...

Kriek is obviously the word for cherry, so any beer made with cherries can be called "Kriek." Most (actually all of them, I think) lambic producers make a kriek using their lambic base, Liefmans and Cnudde do and Rodenbach used to make kriek with their Flemish sour beer as a base and then there's a myriad of other kriek permutations... and that's just Belgium!

That said, I would assume you are asking because you tried Belle Vue Kriek, or perhaps Timmermans. These are pasteurised, sweetened and (mostly) artificially flavoured, which makes them very hard to replicate for the home brewer.

If you want to go down the "authentic" p-Lambic road, then you'll want to read Wild Brews and Lambic by Guinard, and check out the p-Lambic digest and The Liddil Lambic Lesson. It's a far too detailed process to get into in one post, but be warned these beers are years in the making.

The road I would advise you to go down is to brew a base beer of your choice - witbier, hefeweizen, American wheat, blond ale for example - and add cherries to secondary. You can make the base beer sweet or dry depending on what you want the beer to end up like, just remember that fruit is very fermentable, so the cherries won't make your beer sweet at all. And cherries are a real pain in the arse to work with, they clog up your taps/tubing pretty easily.

I've heard of people using canned cherries from the supermarket and stuff like that, but I've never done that. I usually pick Morello cherries at a pick-your-own place when they're in season (Dec-Jan) and use them. They have quite an intense flavour and acidity. You could use eating cherries but I can't see them being as good as Morellos, plus Morellos are about half the price. I use about 2kg/L - it's a lot but it's worth it.
 
You can buy KRIEK and FRAMBOISE kits from you local homebrew shop, only catch is they are around $45 but its supposed to be the actual kit made by the orignal makers of the beer
 
You can buy KRIEK and FRAMBOISE kits from you local homebrew shop, only catch is they are around $45 but its supposed to be the actual kit made by the orignal makers of the beer

And that's only to make 12 liters :blink:
Made one of these " Brewferm / kriek " kits with candy sugar but is still maturing, will let you know how it turned out in a few weeks.
Hillbilly.
 
I use about 2kg/L - it's a lot but it's worth it.

Great info, Mal. I'm just wondering about this ratio as I'm hoping to turn some Am. wheat into cherry wheat. Seems a lot of cherries. :unsure:
 
Wow, thanks all. Such a great depth of knowledge here on AHB. Looks like a great start point.

Cheers,

*HOP*CoNe*
 
I use about 2kg/L - it's a lot but it's worth it.

Great info, Mal. I'm just wondering about this ratio as I'm hoping to turn some Am. wheat into cherry wheat. Seems a lot of cherries. :unsure:

2kg/l???

That means 40kgs of cherris in a 20 litre batch?

I think Malnourished meant 2kg per 20 litre batch, which sounds about right as I believe 3kg per 20l is typical for a kriek.

Berp.
 
Morello cherries are surprisingly cheap in jars - check your local supermarkets, but I can usually find them for about $3 for a big jar. Not too many added surprises either, a tiny bit of sugar and that's it.

If you want to cheat and get somewhere near that kriek flavour without all the effort, a few mls of lactic acid in the brew will give you a cheap lambic tartness if the cherries don't dry the beer out enough.

You'll probably want to boil them and skim off the crud to keep the beer looking good and minimise haze.
 
That's what I was thinking too, berp. :lol:

Planning on doing 10L with 1kg of cherries. Just need to get the cherries. :rolleyes:
 
:eek:
I was wondering if anyone would notice that! I don't think 2kg of cherries would fit into a 1L volume!

It should be 2kg/5L, ie. 400g/L.

I wouldn't consider 2kg in 20L anywhere near enough, but perhaps that's just me. Cantillon uses 300g/L in their Lou Pp range, and a bit above 200g/L in their regular range. I seem to recall reading that they can go as high as 500g/L but I can't recall where I read that now.
 
I was at the Cantillon brewery last week and the brewer said he usually uses 300gms per litre in the Kriek, I cant remeber if it was a little more or a little less for the Lou Pepe range... anyway, I think the Cantillon lambics are a decent enough to aim to clone (thats an understatement).

I've got a Lambic style beer brewing away back in Australia at the moment, and will spilt my 20 litres into 10l of gueuze, and 10 of kriek, using 3 kg of fruit (ie. 300gm L).
The beer is about to celebrate its 18th month in the fermenter and I'm getting excitied about having my very first unblended gueuze, will let you know how it goes in a few months.
 
I was at the Cantillon brewery last week

You lucky lucky lucky lucky *******! It's been some five years now since I was very very very fortunate enough to visit there. The Rose de Gambrinus was and still is a beer that just blew me away.

Mind you lots of people would look at me strangely when I said that my favourite beer ever was a rasberry one... It has since been overtaken, perhaps slightly, but that's another story.

I was lucky enough to have some gueuzes on my recent trip to the UK but they weren't quite the same as having them at the source!



I've got a Lambic style beer brewing away back in Australia at the moment, and will spilt my 20 litres into 10l of gueuze, and 10 of kriek, using 3 kg of fruit (ie. 300gm L).
The beer is about to celebrate its 18th month in the fermenter and I'm getting excitied about having my very first unblended gueuze, will let you know how it goes in a few months.

Very very curious to hear about how this goes, what your recipe and method was etc. I'm sure there's a thread or details about it but keep us posted anyway.

I'd like to have a go at this myself one day but I think it might be a project I'll spend some time preparing for rather than diving into as I do most other homebrew related ones...
 
thread or details about it but keep us posted anyway.

I'd like to have a go at this myself one day but I think it might be a project I'll spend some time preparing for rather than diving into as I do most other homebrew related ones...


Bugger that :p PM sent with a recipie you can play with, go for it.
I will post it here after I get more feed back on it, I like it others may differ <_< .
 
About four months ago I bottled/kegged 50 litres of a pLambic that I had fermenting for about two years. I used 60% raw wheat 40% pils, about 150g of some very old fuggles and the Wyeast lambic blend. I was quite happy with the brett. funk that I got out of it, but it could have done with a lot more sourness. Part of it was kegged as a straight unblended pLambic, and the other half was distrubuted to roughly 10 litres of Cassis and 20 litres of Kriek. I used concentrates for the Cassis (blackcurrents being fairly hard to find) and was - as expected - pretty dissapointed with the result. I found the amount of sugars in the concentrate brought the alcohol up to quite a noticable level - fairly hot and quite out of style. I used jars of morello cherries acquired at the local supermarket for the Kriek, but apparently nowhere near enough. After four months on the cherries (about four and a half kilos) the resulting brew is a lovely deep red, with very little cherry flavour.

Things I would do differently next time would include not relying on the Lambic Blend as the source of yeast/bacteria, instead utilising the individual cultures one can buy and pitching them at around the time they typically become active in the brew. A fairly sterile approach to what is supposed to be a spontaneously fermented brew, but I would personally rather brew a nice example of the end result than spend years relying once again on chance.

I fermented this for roughly three weeks in plastic before transfering it to a 55 litre keg that I converted specially for the purpose. I believe this may have removed a lot of the bacteriae lying dormant in the sediment layer so I would refrain from racking pLambics in the future and stick solely with the stainless fermenter, unless someone who has actually been to Belgium and spoken to the brewers there would recommend otherwise. I would also place a single french oak stave inside the fermenter... something noticably lacking in my first attempt.

As for the fruit additions; I will never, ever use concentrates again, nor skimp on the fruit additions. From my experience I would say that Malnourished's example of 2kg/G is a nice ballpark figure. However, I would likely head towards the 3kg/G mark, leaving some straight pLambic aside for blending later if you have gone over the mark (at the very least, you will have some straight pLambic to drink if you don't overdo the fruit... never a bad thing :p )

Finally, one thing I have been contemplating is building a solero type system of the large 55L kegs. I would begin a batch every six months or so, topping up the kegs as I go and kegging/bottling/racking-onto-fruit 25 litres from the bottom keg each time I transfer a fresh batch into the top keg (if that even makes sense). A fair bit of effort, true, but it may well be worth it in the end.
 
Cheap cheeris can be found at cherry farms. They can only sell "perfect" cherries. I got about 10 kilos of cherries a couple of years ago for nothing like this. Now destemming and removing the stones from 10kg cherries is not fun.

As for the cherry lambic, nice deep red colour but is toooooooo sour. Would rip the enamel off your teeth if you drank it straight.

One day when i get some time i might try and blend it.

cheers

Darren
 
Well, my method was very basic... As this was my first attempt at a pLambic I thought it would be best to play it simple, then change the method after I see what comes out.

I used a simple 70% powells ale malt, and 30% unmalted wheat grist, starting the mash at 62deg for 40 mins, then to 68 for another 40 mins, then a mash out at my usual 78-80deg.
The hops were some old homegrown POR which had been sitting around and had nothing to offer in the way of flavour or bitterness. I used 40gms for my 20l batch.

After chilling, I put it straight into my glass fermenter, no primary ferment. Aparently glass or SS is the go, beacuse of the oxidisation problems with long term storage in plastic.
The yeast was Wyeast lambic blend, no other bacteria was added. I also put in a couple of bits of an old french oak barrel. I'm undecided as to which type of cherry I will use, all I know is they will be fresh... and dosed at a rate of 300g /l.


And yes the Cantillon brewery was very nice, the smell in the air was soo good.
 
I was quite happy with the brett. funk that I got out of it, but it could have done with a lot more sourness...
Things I would do differently next time would include not relying on the Lambic Blend as the source of yeast/bacteria...
I would refrain from racking pLambics in the future...
I would also place a single french oak stave inside the fermenter...
Your experience sounds exactly like mine.

I'm pretty sure the Wyeast blend doesn't contain pediococcus, which is probably why the beer doesn't get all that sour. See my post in the link for Raj Apte's suggesting for souring using the Wyeast blend.

I'm not sure that adding oak will really add much. Lambics never taste like oak to me, the barrels are used because they harbour bacteria/wild yeasts and because they permit oxygen very slowly. An oak stave wouldn't have any of those advantages, but it wouldn't hurt either.
 
Malnourished or anyone who can help, I'm now quite frightened that my plambic will not turn out sour enough... Is it worth adding some pediococcus now? or has too much nutrient been used up already in the ferment for it to take off?

Cheers, Chris
 
Malnourished or anyone who can help, I'm now quite frightened that my plambic will not turn out sour enough... Is it worth adding some pediococcus now? or has too much nutrient been used up already in the ferment for it to take off?
I have no idea. I tried something similar by chucking some crushed malt in a thermos of unboiled wort for a while and then adding that, but it didn't seem to make much difference. Seeing as you're fermenting in glass and used only the Wyeast blend you might be alright... but I dunno.

In my experience Morello cherries add quite a bit of tartness, so they might be a good way to boost the acid if it turns out too soft. Blending with a quicker, Berliner weisse-type sour ale might work too.

It's the unpredictability of the whole process that has really turned me off the whole thing. Getting your hands on authentic lambics around here is bloody hard, but I making the stuff is 10x harder I reckon.
 
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