Kriek Recipe

[shotduck]

Getting your hands on authentic lambics around here is bloody hard, but I making the stuff is 10x harder I reckon.

Too right! Add to that the two years before you bottle it, and you've got a loooong time waiting for a beer that, when placed next to other beers you make in a matter of weeks, pales in comparison. On the other hand, if you get it right... :beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:

Cheers,
TSD

 

[voota]

I have no idea. I tried something similar by chucking some crushed malt in a thermos of unboiled wort for a while and then adding that, but it didn't seem to make much difference. Seeing as you're fermenting in glass and used only the Wyeast blend you might be alright... but I dunno.

I think I'll probably leave it, its probably a bit much for my lambic minder back in Oz to be able to do, but thanks anyway.

It's the unpredictability of the whole process that has really turned me off the whole thing. Getting your hands on authentic lambics around here is bloody hard, but I making the stuff is 10x harder I reckon.

I hope I don't feel the same way after this one comes through, that article you linked to a few posts ago really got me interested... I dream of having 10 fermenters of differently aged plambics going at once and being able to blend and such, releasing a batch every 2-3 months. Though, reading that article it looks like you are right about the unpredictability, I can't imagine how devastating it would be to invest so much time, energy and space into something that is barely drinkable.
We will wait and see...


edit. Just looking through some notes, and found that I have written that Cantillon uses 250gm of fruit per litre in the standard range, so I think the Lou Pepe range must be the ones with 300gm litre.

 

[voota]

Have just been on the Wyeast website to find out what was actually in the blend I used... it looks like it contains pediococcus, so I don't know why your beer didn't get very sour. I guess that gives me some hope of a sourish plambic coming through...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs/faqmain.htm

 

[shotduck]

Have just been on the Wyeast website to find out what was actually in the blend I used... it looks like it contains pediococcus, so I don't know why your beer didn't get very sour. I guess that gives me some hope of a sourish plambic coming through...

http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs/faqmain.htm

It boils down to the whole unpredictability of what is supposed to be a spontaneously fermented beer. The way I see it, the culture may have all the different types of bacteriae found in a fermenting lambic, but at what stage of the process did they draw the original culture? Perhaps pitching active pediococcus at the start of the ferment may cause unforseen problems with viability of that particular bacteria? Unless I am mis-reading the information contained in your link, the blend does not actually contain pediococcus...

Our blend of strains comes from a Belgian brewery which is maintained with a mix of S. cerevisiae, B. bruxellensis, B. lambicus, S.delbruckii, and P. cerevisiae. As you can note, it does not contain some of the other yeast and bacteria found in some lambics.

... and it is sorely missing in several other bacteria and yeast which literature maintains should be present. I understand that the yeast was used in an award winning Gueuze, but to steal (and bastardise) an old saying; "a single winning beer does not a great culture make". After reading the information supplied by Wyeast on this culture, it makes me even more determined to use the individual yeast/bacteria cultures also available and pitch them at the (roughly) corresponding times during the ferment.

Cheers,
TSD

EDIT: Egh... after reading over that post, it seems about as easy to read as a legal contract... the result of several late nights at work catching up to me, I'm afraid.

 

[Malnourished]

Have just been on the Wyeast website to find out what was actually in the blend I used... it looks like it contains pediococcus, so I don't know why your beer didn't get very sour.

Sorry. Evidently I meant Lactobacillus - I knew it was one of them.

I don't think my experience is particularly exceptional, but I doubt it's the rule. The pLambic digest archives are still messed up, unfortunately, otherwise I'd direct you there for more info. I might fire off an email to see what happened.

Dammit all this talk has me thinking of taking another crack at a plambic...

 

[voota]

Unless I am mis-reading the information contained in your link, the blend does not actually contain pediococcus...

I think P. cerevisiae. is a pediococcus strain. But I'm not too sure.

 

[shotduck]

I think P. cerevisiae. is a pediococcus strain. But I'm not too sure.

Doh!
Quite right there Voota. Sorry about that :wacko:

Cheers,
TSD

 

[voota]

It seems like you were spot on about the addition times of the strains though... after a bit of reading, I'm not sure about adding the wyeast blend in my next brew, instead i'll try adding the individual strains at different times (whilst brewing 50L to compensate for the added yeast cost). This all may change if the current batch comes out well though!

 

[Jye]

I picked up a jar of Morello cherries today and want to know if I should decant the liquid or chuck it it?

Im going to add the jar to 4L of American wheat just for kicks

 

[Adamt]

I'd chuck it in, the juice is what you want out of it anyway, and quite a bit of it would've absorbed into the liquid.

 

[Jye]

Cheers Adam, ended up adding the liquid, I was just a little worried about the sugar that is added to the jar.

 

[bindi]

I picked up a jar of Morello cherries today and want to know if I should decant the liquid or chuck it it?

Im going to add the jar to 4L of American wheat just for kicks

It will be fine Jye, I have added 3 and a half 700ml jars to 20L to a Belgiam Wit no problem.

 

[Screwtop]

It will be fine Jye, I have added 3 and a half 700ml jars to 20L to a Belgiam Wit no problem.

And it was bloody great! Sweet and sour beer :blink:

Edit: Swet to sweet

 

[Ross]

And it was bloody great! Sweet and sour beer :blink:

Edit: Swet to sweet

You should have made 20L Jye, it's a top brew :chug:

cheers Ross

 

[Jye]

Bottled it up today and got a grand total of 8 stubbies :lol:

Reading with the hydrometer and refractometer give a FG of 1.006 and 6.1% A couple more weeks and its time to sample :beerbang:

 

[Ash in Perth]

After only 4 months in a fermenter, I dont tihnk the acidity would have completely developed. There are 3 phases of fermentation: ordinary yeast, wild yeast and then acid bacteria activity. The longer it is left the more acidic it gets.

Oxygen is a big factor. plastic fermenters will allow way too much oxygen in but SS or glass do not let enoug in. you need to mimic the amount of oxygen which passes through the wooden casks lambics were/are stored in. I tihnk glass with a certain type of bung is best but im not sure yet. still looking into it.

Ash (First post in a long time)

 

[brendanos]

Good to have you back, Ash.

Going by the oxygen diffusion rates listen in Wild Brews. to replicate a wooden barrel (which can range from 0.5 cc/L/yr of oxygen for a v large barrel to 8.5 for a wine barrel) you need to be somewhere between a glass carboy with a wooden stopper (0.1 O2 cc/L/yr) and a glass carboy with a silicone stopper (17 O2 cc/L/yr).

A lot of people replace a rubber stopper and airlock with a piece of oak after primary fermentation has finished, generally from an old piece of furniture (chair leg etc) with plumbers tape or similar to get a seal with the glass. The only problem this may cause is damage to your carboy during temperature fluctuations/moisture effecting the cross dimensional area of the chair leg/piece of wood (ie cracked neck).

What I plan to do is bore a larger hole through a rubber stopper (maybe two thirds of the diameter) such that I can fit a narrow piece of oak through it and into the beer.

 

[Stuster]

There's a thread here that may be of interest to you sour beer makers. It's about using the Roselare yeast, but some of the issues are the same.

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Good to have you back, Ash.

Going by the oxygen diffusion rates listen in Wild Brews. to replicate a wooden barrel (which can range from 0.5 cc/L/yr of oxygen for a v large barrel to 8.5 for a wine barrel) you need to be somewhere between a glass carboy with a wooden stopper (0.1 O2 cc/L/yr) and a glass carboy with a silicone stopper (17 O2 cc/L/yr).

A lot of people replace a rubber stopper and airlock with a piece of oak after primary fermentation has finished, generally from an old piece of furniture (chair leg etc) with plumbers tape or similar to get a seal with the glass. The only problem this may cause is damage to your carboy during temperature fluctuations/moisture effecting the cross dimensional area of the chair leg/piece of wood (ie cracked neck).

What I plan to do is bore a larger hole through a rubber stopper (maybe two thirds of the diameter) such that I can fit a narrow piece of oak through it and into the beer.

I have inherited a glass carboy with an old cork bung that I am going to use for my first attempt at a lambic in two weeks time. Ferment with S04 in plastic fermenter and transfer to glass carboy and pitch Wyeast lambic blend etc.
How do you reckon an old cork bung will fare in regards to O2 diffusion? Also, SWMBO is strongly 'encouraging' me to put the carboy under the house so it's out of the way. The temp shouldn't fluctuate too much although it may be a little cold - do you think the lower temp may not balance the wild yeast and bacteria activity? EG: Lower temp may encourage funk at the expense of sour etc. Any help would be appreciated.

cheers

 

[chillamacgilla73]

Bump.