Knb

[eddy401]

hi,

i have made a few brews now just using kits and following the instructions, adding a bit extra dextrose of LDME but nothing more adventurous than that. Ive just got myself some hops and yeast - a fairly random selection based on the descriptions online, i bought
- Citra, Nelson Sauvin, Amarillo and Cascade hops (all 90g pellets)
- Safale S-04, US-05, Wyeast 2001 Urquell lager
- a 9" by 12" fine mesh bag for the hops
basically for my first brew using these extra bits, i am gonna use a 'coles lager' i got on special, and use one of these yeasts and hops. I know the cheap kit isnt the best way to start but its what i have here so itll have to do, and i wanna just use a new yeast and one new hop so i can see what they taste like before i try and mix and match randomly.

my question is how to do the boil - ive read that 100g/L of malt is good, so if i was to add 500g LDME to 5L boiling water, then at about 10mins add say 20g citra hops, then just add this to the fermenter with my Kit and a kilo of dextrose, top up to 23L and ad the yeast would that get much flavour out of the hops?? i assume i dont need to add them early in the boil because the kit will already have enough bitterness to it?

thanks! :icon_cheers:

 

[kelbygreen]

yes you are right in a way I do kits like this and usually 20g at 20mins and some are good some are average. citra is good try 20 @ 20min to even better that I would do extract but thats me might have my first recipe to add soon had taste out fermenter and its bloody great!! first time using citra!

But yes your right 100g to 1lt and I would do 50/50 malt dextrose to get more body, if you up the IBU i would use more malt and if you wanna make a higher alcohol beer up the IBU to try balance it a bit but dont just wack a heap of dextrose in to get there or your defeating the purpose.

I am drinking a coopers lager ATM hopped and its nice cant tell you the recipe till I log onto other computer and will post it here if you like

 

[eddy401]

thanks Kelbygreen! the recipie would be much appreciated, any ideas on which of the yeasts i got would be best?

yes you are right in a way I do kits like this and usually 20g at 20mins and some are good some are average. citra is good try 20 @ 20min to even better that I would do extract but thats me might have my first recipe to add soon had taste out fermenter and its bloody great!! first time using citra!

But yes your right 100g to 1lt and I would do 50/50 malt dextrose to get more body, if you up the IBU i would use more malt and if you wanna make a higher alcohol beer up the IBU to try balance it a bit but dont just wack a heap of dextrose in to get there or your defeating the purpose.

I am drinking a coopers lager ATM hopped and its nice cant tell you the recipe till I log onto other computer and will post it here if you like

 

[kelbygreen]

sorry recipe might be in my laptop that the misses has at the hospital as it has honey and the spread sheet does not have honey in it.

I think it was something like this:
coopers lager tin
200g honey
500g LDME
500g dex
20g POR flower hops @ 20 mins , Or bittered to about 25IBU
pretty sure I used 2 packs of coopers ale yeast

for yeast US-05 and s-04 are clean yeasts only used s04 once and havnt tried the beer yet us05 is great save wyeast for something special as its not cheap plus not sure if you need to make a starter or pitch 2 of wyeast lager packs as never used liquid yeast

 

[seemax]

You'll need a big starter for the liquid yeast... around 3L for a 23L batch.

S-04 tends to be fruity and best for british style ales, US-05 very clean and versatile.

If you're boiling now... consider doing a full extract especially if you prefer pale (lighter) beers as it's pretty hard to make a real lager with kits.

 

[bum]

Or just use the US05 because the citra would probably be really weird in a lager.

As would most of the other hops you mention (some might work with quite a bit of skill).

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah I agree I done a true lager with a kit it was nice but plan to do a full extract one as you can make it to how you like plus got like 110g POR flowers and 170g cluster left

 

[eddy401]

by extract you mean to replace the kit with malt extract right - so would i just replace the 1.7kg of kit with 1.7kg of malt (+ any extra malt i would have added to the kit)? is there any difference with liquid vs dry and how much would i want to use in total if not 1.7kg to replace the kit, i do like lighter lagers and a lot of my 'financers' prefer them too (they pay a bit each and drink it with me, means i make it for free just that every 3 or so brews i do one that is a bit more bland and appealing to the masses) so it would be useful if i could make a good one. think i will boild for a while first though, so i get some experience with hops and what not.


a bit off topic, i just got the stuff in the post and the hops came in a vacume packed bag - how do i store them once ive opened it and used only 20 of the 90 grams?? and how long can i store them for?

cheers!

You'll need a big starter for the liquid yeast... around 3L for a 23L batch.

S-04 tends to be fruity and best for british style ales, US-05 very clean and versatile.

If you're boiling now... consider doing a full extract especially if you prefer pale (lighter) beers as it's pretty hard to make a real lager with kits.

 

[Pennywise]

Extract, as opposed to kits wise, yep, spot on, replace the kit with the same amount of liquid extract (if using dry extract then use 20% less[liquid extract is 20% water]). With this base you add your own bittering/flavour hop additions to pretty much make any style of beer you like. Storing hops should be done in the freezer in an airtight container, preferably a vaccume seald bag (not always possible though, and I don't do this myself). If you have a look at the Craftbrewer website in the hops section on the last page they sell ziplock hop bags, alot of us brewers use these (including myself) and they work just fine

 

[Nick JD]

+1 on ditching the kits. You've got all those great highly bitter hops to use for bittering!

Check out buying bulk dried malt extract. I've seen it as low as $5.50kg, so you're looking the same or even cheaper than a can of chemically-bittered goo.

Now you've got real hops and great yeast it's a pity not to go that extra step and eliminate isohop from your beer - of all the things that make that homebrew taste, the chemical bitterness in the cans is the only thing standing between you making beer that doesn't taste like "homebrew".

Next step ... steeping some specialty grains!

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

+1 on ditching the kits. You've got all those great highly bitter hops to use for bittering!

Check out buying bulk dried malt extract. I've seen it as low as $5.50kg, so you're looking the same or even cheaper than a can of chemically-bittered goo.

Now you've got real hops and great yeast it's a pity not to go that extra step and eliminate isohop from your beer - of all the things that make that homebrew taste, the chemical bitterness in the cans is the only thing standing between you making beer that doesn't taste like "homebrew".

Next step ... steeping some specialty grains!

Hi Nick,

I have read a few different things regarding using DME for extract brewing, if price wasn't an issue would LME be the preferred or would you stick with DME? Interested because as you pointed out seen some 25kg bags of DME that would turn out rather cost affective

 

[Pennywise]

I use mostly dry extract, but do use the odd tin of liquid, I can't tell the difference at all. So basicly for me, it comes down to price and storability. I buy 20kg sack of LDME which has no storage problems, if I was to buy a 20kg drum of liquid malt, it would a) be a real pain in the arse to measure & use and B) has a shelf life, liquid extract will darken and stale as time goes on. Which is why it's always best to use the freshest kits & LLME

 

[New2thebrew]

I use mostly dry extract, but do use the odd tin of liquid, I can't tell the difference at all. So basicly for me, it comes down to price and storability. I buy 20kg sack of LDME which has no storage problems, if I was to buy a 20kg drum of liquid malt, it would a) be a real pain in the arse to measure & use and B) has a shelf life, liquid extract will darken and stale as time goes on. Which is why it's always best to use the freshest kits & LLME

Where do you buy the 20kg sacks of LDME, and what do you store it in? Can you get dark & wheat malt extract as well?

Getting a little sick of paying $8 - $9 a kilo for LDME, and twice that for wheat...

 

[Pennywise]

I get it from Grain & Grape, never asked myself but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get it in wheat & dark. How far from you is Craftbrewer? I'd say they'd stock it

 

[New2thebrew]

I get it from Grain & Grape, never asked myself but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get it in wheat & dark. How far from you is Craftbrewer? I'd say they'd stock it

Cheers mate, will check them out.

Craftbrewer is only a 15min drive, but from their website it looks like they only sell it by the kilo (@ $7.90 for light & dark).

 

[eddy401]

thanks for all the info guys as usual a great help,

im not near a craftbrewer so for now ill just keep to the kits and give an all extract a go in the hopefully near future, so im gonna do this - 500g LDME into 5L boiling water, then at 20mins add 20g Citra hops (should i use a hop teabag thing?)
then add this after its cooled a bit to the fermenter, mix in the 1.7kg coles tin, add another 1kg of BE2 (was on special as well) and ill use the US05 yeast.

what does dry hopping do? is it just for aroma or does that depend on when you do it?
ill bottle some of the yeasty bit at the bottom to try and use again too

oh and top up to 23L

hopefully a good brew

 

[kelbygreen]

dry hopping only adds aroma i find it not worth it unless you got a big hopped beer. I also wouldnt reuse us05 as dry yeast is like $4 a pack and to loose a whole batch that might cost $40 to save $4 is not worth it in my mind. splitting liquid yeast out of the pack how ever is a different story

 

[Shed101]

(should i use a hop teabag thing?)

Just chuck the hops into the boil and then when you pour into the fermenter strain it out with a sanitised sieve.

If you're going to crash chill (i.e. cool to ~2c for the last few day before bottling) any hop sediment that does get through normally drops into the trub

 

[eddy401]

for anyone still following - the brew is nearly finished fermenting (at 1014 now) and the taste from the fermenter is amazing, i think its something like lychee fruit but theres other tastes there too. it might be just because this is my first hopped beer, but its AWESOME! i reccomend it even with such a simple method like i did and a cheap base kit (assuming it doesnt nose-dive between now and when its bottled and carbonated)

definately try this hop and for anoyone just starting to use some this worked well and is reallllly easy B)

(the hop is 'citra' btw)

 

[Pennywise]

I love Citra, been using it in almost all my APA's since trying it in Arctic Fox Pale Ale (the only beer with Citra in it that I've tried).