Kit Explanation

[Donz]

The upside of going in head first... I got 5 brews out in less than 2 months ( 2 23Ltr batch at a time) .. and joined a team of gentlemen that knows how to brew.
Downside, I May have to throw out 60Ltrs of beer .. well not beer if it is crap.
the up up side of everything!!.. I love doing it and if I have to spend time to do something properly, I'll have a proper time learning how to do it right.
If all else fails,.. I'll go back to step one and do it with that bit more know how.
:chug:

 

[RdeVjun]

Hold off chucking it Donz, given that its cloudy and tastes pretty crap it could be just the ferment debris settling into the bottom of the keg and that's what is making its way into your glass, that's fairly normal. It may take a week or two to settle out all the particulates, after which you can toss the first few pints then enjoy much some better beer.
Often I am in a hurry to dispense freshly- kegged beer after carbonation, I use a floating pickup (known as a cask widge, available from sponsors) for a few of my cornies, while I also have a few kegs with shortened dip tubes, only an inch or so trimmed off to allow the debris to settle past the pickup and stay in the bottom of the keg.
It could also be infection or ferment issues, but given that a sample tasted OK previously I'd be giving it the benefit of the doubt and some more time for settling, after that you can also be a bit more certain about what the issue may have been and use that learning to improve quality in the future.
HTH! :icon_cheers:

 

[Jack of all biers]

If it's tasting like creamed corn, then it is DMS. If it's more of a general vegetable taste or aroma, then it's an infection. If the fermenter is still tasting good (I assume it's been bottled by now), but the keg isn't then the DMS production happened in the keg due to infection. It could have come from various sources such as scratches and nooks in plastic or crevasses (like in the auto siphon or valves in the keg). If you have enough kegs and want to see if it will get better, then do that. If it is DMS, then it is not going to settle out with the yeast and trub.

I'm just going off what Donz has stated, but it may be better for Donz to use Ctrl F (search function) on the below doc to search for key words he'd describe the taste as being. Creamed corn only comes up with one thing.

View attachment Complete_Beer_Fault_Guide.pdf

 

[Donz]

Quick update, I pulled a sample from keg today, I did not taste it but the bad smell has reduced quite a lot.
I'll pull half a glass next weekend and give an update on the taste.

 

[Donz]

I also pulled a Grav reading from one of my newer brews where the smell from the airlock was horrible, I tasted the reading and it was Awesome!, hot and flat, but the potential for a good beer is there, just goes to show that the fermenting smells can get you worried for no reason

 

[Donz]

I ended up tipping that first keg, but done another one before I threw the first one.
I tasted the second keg and it started tasting like the first one
After doing a lot more reading on this site, I had the thought that the sterilizer solution I'm using (sodium percarbonate) is oxygen based and after pouring into keg I put the keg in 4 deg C fridge.
I know beer hates oxygen, but hear, yeast can get rid of it, so I pulled the keg out and warmed it up for two days to try and reactivate any remaining yeast, then put it back in the fridge.
Not sure how, but it worked a treat!!
The bad smell and taste are completely gone and the beer tastes great!
Could the "no rinse" steriliser, be producing oxygen if kegged straight after cleaning?, and does the left over yeast help remove oxygen?
Wish I had done this for my first keg before tipping it out as it tasted exactly the same but got worse after 2 weeks.

 

[RdeVjun]

Err, sodium percarbonate isn't no- rinse. Its use is generally as a cleaning agent, although it has some value as a sanitiser, but should always be rinsed. AFAIK, at least.

 

[Jack of all biers]

+1 to above with an explanation as to why it is not 'no rinse'. Sodium percarbonate is essentially Sodium carbonate mixed with Hydrogen peroxide. The Hydrogen peroxide hits organic matter and releases an oxygen molecule, which is how it 'bleaches'/'cleans' the vessel you are using it on (in this case the keg). The left overs from this process is the oxidised organic matter (it doesn't just disappear), water (H2O from the break down of the Hydrogen peroxide) and Sodium carbonate (feels a bit slimy or soapy). Taste a little bit next time you have cleaned a keg (if your not willing I won't blame you). That is what you are leaving in your keg when you don't rinse it. WIth the right dose of Sodium percarbonate the resultant Hydrogen peroxide can sanitize your vessel, but then you are also increasing the amount of Sodium carbonate you are adding to the beer if you don't rinse it out.

If you want the sanitizing effect of Hydrogen peroxide then best use that as a no rinse sanitizer on its own. I'd recommend a commercial 'no rinse' sanitizer though and there are plenty to choose from (let the AHB search function assist you to discover which would be preferable to you).

 

[Kingy]

As above
Sodium percarbonate is a great cleaner/soaker.
Must always be rinsed out.
Then you use a no rinse sanitizer like starsan. This doesn't need rinsing.

Remember you can't sanitise a dirty surface.
Sodium percto clean, than rinse out.
Starsan to sanitize then drain but don't rinse.

 

[Donz]

Wonder why it sais no rinse on the bottle ?

 

[Donz]

copper tun no rinse steriliser..
sais to clean everything with the cold water cleaner then rinse, then use this "no rinse" ,
ingedients: Sodium percarbonate.
I'm going to the brew shop this weekend, I'll pick something else up, they do not have starsan.
My mangrove jacks no rinse steriliser is also Sodium percarbonate
but the detergent to use before it is Sodium carbonate.
why do they advertise it like this if you then need a sanitizer afterwards

 

[Jack of all biers]

Mangrove Jacks "No Rinse Sterilser"


Well the label is misleading the customer by saying that it is a steriliser. There is a difference between sanitation and sterilisation, one being the reduction of living organisisms to an acceptable level the other being the complete destruction of all life, which is very difficult to achieve with sodium percarbonate I would think.

You probably can get away with not rinsing your Sodium Perc solution, but as i said before, have a taste next time of a little bit and decide yourself if you want that in your beer. You will know.

 

[Donz]

Went to LHBS and they didn't have starsan so I got some Morgans sanitize.
Ingredients: Hydrogen peroxide (2.95%), silver ions, stabiliser and distilled water.
30ml to one ltr.
Will this do the job after rinsing both previous washes?

 

[Jack of all biers]

Yes, that is a proper no rinse sanitiser. The silver assists the hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) to kill any bacteria or spores. The H2O2 breaks down leaving oxygen and water, so no effects on beer/wort that is later poured into the vessel. The stabilser is likely phosphoric acid (main ingredient in Starsan) which keeps the pH down, stopping the H2O2 from breaking down prior to you needing it.