i'v tryed the grumpy's one but i wasn't really a fan (a great beer but not what i was looking for, a bit sweet tasting), mind you i was still only starting out brewing so will give it another go one day, i'll be trying TL's soon hopefully, there was a short thread not long ago on here about it, tell us how you go it's deffinatly a beer i'd love to re-create
-Phill