Kettle Sour in a No Chill Cube.

[riichiee]

Anyone used a no chill cube for kettle souring?

I don't have CO2 gas handy, so I was wondering anyone can see anything wrong with the following method:

- Mash and sparge grain as usual.
- Boil for 15 minutes.
- Fill no-chill cube to top & cap.
- Wait until it's around 35'
- Add lacto culture.
- Keep at 35' until pH is correct.
- Add back to kettle, boil then ferment as usual.

I use one of the first versions of the Robobrew for my boil kettle, and I just don't really see myself being able to properly seal it up so that oxygen won't get in. Also, I think the cube might be easier to keep at a warmer temperature.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Nothing wrong with that process except keeping the cube at 35C might be difficult?
Probably a much easier way is to sour it in the kettle as normal, keep the heat up around 40-42C and lay some gladwrap on the wort surface to minimise O2.
The extra heat will increase the lacto production but also deter most undesirable aerobic baceria.

You should also pre-acidify the wort after the initial boil to at least 4.5pH. This will help keep the undesirables out of it as well.

 

[earle]

Is your robobrew electric or gas?

I kettle sour in my urn and don't worry about purging the headspace with CO2. Cling wrap over the top of the urn held on with black rubber ring (same as for fermenters) once chilled to ~40C. Sit the lid on top of that and then lag with sleeping bag. Leave urn set to 40C. This method has turned out some great kettle sours. First place in the GCABC for my Berliner Weisse and positive feedback at brewclub and swaps.

 

[riichiee]

Probably a much easier way is to sour it in the kettle as normal, keep the heat up around 40-42C and lay some gladwrap on the wort surface to minimise O2.
The extra heat will increase the lacto production but also deter most undesirable aerobic baceria.

OK, I didn't know that. It might be just as easy to use the robobrew instead then.
Thanks.

Is your robobrew electric or gas?

Robobrew is electric. I'm leaning towards giving it a shot in the robobrew now, since it will be easier to keep at 42' then the cube.

 

[earle]

OK, I didn't know that. It might be just as easy to use the robobrew instead then.
Thanks.



Robobrew is electric. I'm leaning towards giving it a shot in the robobrew now, since it will be easier to keep at 42' then the cube.

Just had a look at Robobrew. Similar to an urn with a malt pipe. No pump. I reckon this type of setup is perfect for kettle sours in terms of avoiding infection carry over and holding temp for the souring to do its thing. Once you add pumps and pipework to the equation you need to be more thoughtful about how to kill all the bugs before your next brew.

 

[pcqypcqy]

Is your robobrew electric or gas?

I kettle sour in my urn and don't worry about purging the headspace with CO2. Cling wrap over the top of the urn held on with black rubber ring (same as for fermenters) once chilled to ~40C. Sit the lid on top of that and then lag with sleeping bag. Leave urn set to 40C. This method has turned out some great kettle sours. First place in the GCABC for my Berliner Weisse and positive feedback at brewclub and swaps.

It was the best one of those you've ever done.

 

[pcqypcqy]

earle has indeed been doing some good sours with his urn method, and did a good talk on it at our last TooSOBA meeting. It's had me thinking about how to do it, but I've been put off by the chance of infecting hoses and pumps.

Souring in a cube might be the way out for me, I can then just pour direct to the kettle which should get a good boil. I can then have a dedicated sour hose to drain into fermenter, and give all my valves a good clean.

 

[earle]

It was the best one of those you've ever done.

At the time it was because it was also the first I had ever done.

 

[pcqypcqy]

At the time it was because it was also the first I had ever done.

It is literally true then.

 

[Droopy Brew]

earle has indeed been doing some good sours with his urn method, and did a good talk on it at our last TooSOBA meeting. It's had me thinking about how to do it, but I've been put off by the chance of infecting hoses and pumps.

Souring in a cube might be the way out for me, I can then just pour direct to the kettle which should get a good boil. I can then have a dedicated sour hose to drain into fermenter, and give all my valves a good clean.

If you are boiling post souring I dont see an issue. As long as you do some recirc with 80C plus wort that should kill off any Lactobacillus in your pump and tubing.
The other option is to insulate the urn with blankets/sleeping bags etc so that you dont need to run the pump at all. Do it well enough and you should see a drop from 42C to around 34-35C over a 24 hour period which is still in the zone for lacto.

Remember that kettle souring has the great benefit of not contaminating any of your gear. The boil (or you can just pasturise at 80C for 10 minutes if you prefer) will ensure there are no viable bacteria. Fermenting with bacto however requires dedicated gear because you will be unlikely to rid every nook and cranny of the bacto.

 

[pcqypcqy]

If you are boiling post souring I dont see an issue. As long as you do some recirc with 80C plus wort that should kill off any Lactobacillus in your pump and tubing.
The other option is to insulate the urn with blankets/sleeping bags etc so that you dont need to run the pump at all. Do it well enough and you should see a drop from 42C to around 34-35C over a 24 hour period which is still in the zone for lacto.

Remember that kettle souring has the great benefit of not contaminating any of your gear. The boil (or you can just pasturise at 80C for 10 minutes if you prefer) will ensure there are no viable bacteria. Fermenting with bacto however requires dedicated gear because you will be unlikely to rid every nook and cranny of the bacto.

I get what you're saying, but the warning has been that even doing this can leave a flavour behind in your equipment that can find it's way into your beer. Might be misplaced, but until I know for sure I won't be trying it. I may just steal Earle's urn for a brew day.

 

[earle]

I get what you're saying, but the warning has been that even doing this can leave a flavour behind in your equipment that can find it's way into your beer.

For the clarity of others, it was suggested this could be more of an issue if souring with a handful of grain rather than a pure lacto strain, and would be caused by other bacteria present rather than the lacto.

 

[pcqypcqy]

For the clarity of others, it was suggested this could be more of an issue if souring with a handful of grain rather than a pure lacto strain, and would be caused by other bacteria present rather than the lacto.

Ah, fair enough.