Kegs And Conditioning

[Lobsta]

so, putting my next brew into a keg, and was wondering, is conditioning (as inflavour changes) different for kegs then bottles? like, should i leave it in the keg for at least a week before drinking, or is there something magical about the CO2 that speeds up the conditioning?

Need...Hops...

Lobby

 

[muckey]

Like bottle the beer will condition over time. It'd be good to leave it at least a week and the yeast will drop quicker under pressure.
I'v got a couple I kegged last weekend that I've had at pouring pressure all week so they should be beaut by the time I crack 1 on saturday

(thankfully buttersd70 is working coz his keg sprung a leak)

I have noticed that the flavour can improve greatly over the first 3 weeks like any good beer, if the keg lasts that long

hope that helps

 

[Jye]

Hey Lobby,

Just a tip for when you start kegging... do not try and force carbonate! Otherwise you will just become another statistic.

Let the beer carbonate at the correct pressure over a week. This will give it time to condition and clear.

Good luck.
Jye

 

[tdh]

I'd much rather chill the kegged beer, give it 25 shakes at 300kPa, turn the gas off, then drink when I'm ready, it's ready, they're ready...

Why risk sending a bottle of CO2 in to the ether?

tdh

 

[Jye]

give it 25 shakes at 300kPa

This is where new keggers come into trouble... are you gently rocking or picking the keg up and violently shaking??? I can shake a keg and over carbonate it in less than a dozen shakes. It takes a while to get a feel for force carbing.

You can easily set the pressure and top up the keg each morning and night, turning the cylinder off after each top up.

 

[Lobsta]

This is where new keggers come into trouble... are you gently rocking or picking the keg up and violently shaking??? I can shake a keg and over carbonate it in less than a dozen shakes. It takes a while to get a feel for force carbing.

You can easily set the pressure and top up the keg each morning and night, turning the cylinder off after each top up.

see, now when i bought my keg setup, i was told by anthony to shake it at 300 for about 50 shakes, burp it, then dial up to serving pressure... nobody at craft brewer would give me bad advice would they?

Lobby

 

[Jye]

If you feel compelled to to roll, shake or rock your keg while gently spooning it then set the regulator pressure to your carbing pressure e.g 80-100 kpa. This way you can shake till your heart is content and never over carb, and it will only take a few more shakes compared to 300 kpa.

PS - Im clearly stronger than Anthony and can shake my keg harder... please dont tell him I said that

 

[hoohaaman]

Bulk conditioning has its advantages as well,20lt compared to 750ml makes a difference.3 weeks can be too long sometimes to Depends on style,a wit or apa wont be as good at 3 weeks on,better fresh.

But a Pikantus or IPA may come into it's own at 3 weeks.Some beers just need longer to round out/balance,where as others brewed properly are wonderful fresh,fully balanced at day 0.

 

[Slurpdog]

You can easily set the pressure and top up the keg each morning and night, turning the cylinder off after each top up.

Got it in one!

Easiest way of ensuring that you don't lose a full gas cylinder due to leaks.

 

[Screwtop]

Two questions. 1. How keen are you to try your draught beer. 2. How serious are you about brewing/kegging.

OK - if you're like most who have gone before you, you want to try your beer. Force carb, use the Ross method (search), Jye's method or Anthonys method or anyones method, they will all be slightly different but achieve the same thing, carbonated beer. How YOU do it will result in something between under carbonated to overcarbonated, but carbonated beer is what you will produce, you may fluke it and get it spot on first up. Successful force carbonation depends upon a number of variables, volume of beer in the keg (amount of headspace), temperature of the beer, degree to which fermentation has completed, gas pressure, how agressively the keg is rocked/shaken, the time that the keg is rocked/shaken for.

If you're serious about brewing/kegging you will force carbonate again and again learning over time how to use the variables to produce reasonable carbonation of your beer when short on time. This is what Jye was calling your attention to. Ever heard the saying "It's really hard to get something good for nothing" brewing/kegging is much the same when it comes to time. Beer carbonated over time will be carbonated well. Beer that has been force carbonated by a newb is going to be a bit "hit and miss". We all have to learn and we all want to get at our first kegged beer at the earliest opportunity. Just remember if you're not prepared to put up with over/undercarbonated beer then don't take the short cut. Pretty much, home brewers in general have all drunk lots of less than perfect brews in our quest to learn and produce better beer :lol:

Lobby - let us know what you decide to do and the results.

Screwy

 

[~MikE]

Hey Lobby,

Just a tip for when you start kegging... do not try and force carbonate! Otherwise you will just become another statistic.

Let the beer carbonate at the correct pressure over a week. This will give it time to condition and clear.

Good luck.
Jye

i've only just started kegging and i force carbonated both kegs, worked ok. am using just a bronco valve and short hose to dispense so it took a couple of pints of foam to realise i had to drop the serving pressure

 

[Snow]

A few interesting responses, above. This is my take on it. For the majority of ale beer styles, if you condition your beer in secondary for a couple of weeks, it is conditioned enough to keg and drink as soon as it has carbed. If it goes into bottles it takes a bit longer (2-3 weeks) because you are introducing new fermentables and yeast by-products that require subsequent conditioning (blending of flavours, settling of yeast etc). As for carbing in kegs, there is absolutely no need to wait a week for your beer to carbonate. The very simplest method to get your beer carbed relatively quickly, is to crank the pressure up to 250-300kpa (depending on style) and leave it 24 hours, turn off the gas and vent the pressure, re-set to serving pressure and enjoy perfectly carbonated beer. A couple of caveats: obviously, if you have less than a full keg, you need less pressure for the same amount of time or same pressure for less time. I have noticed the carbonation becomes slightly creamier in the mouthfeel after about a week.

Cheers - Snow.

 

[kabooby]

see, now when i bought my keg setup, i was told by anthony to shake it at 300 for about 50 shakes, burp it, then dial up to serving pressure... nobody at craft brewer would give me bad advice would they?

Lobby

I wouldn't burp it unless you have waited about an hour.

Unless you want a beer foam shower

Kabooby :icon_cheers:

 

[muckey]

I've tried the 50 shakes method before and I have to say it does indeed work.
It's really easy to get an over carbed keg though and burping them is not only a waste of CO2 (yes I am tight) but they never pour as well as ones that have sat. They seem to need at least 24 hours to settle properly.

I have 2 that I've carbed this week. The gas is always turned off when not in use, just in case. I put 1 on the gas for a couple of minutes when I get home from work and then the other, and repeat the same thing in the morning. Have been doing this since sunday and the kegs hardly take any co2 now when I connect them so they should be really nice after I drain the remaining dregs in the nearly empty 1 I have on at the moment.

Getting back to conditioning comments, butters will be able to verify this, the kegs normally change dramatically over the first week and the first glass can be a pleasant surprise from what I remebered from the previous week but the bottles definately do work at a diffferent rate. Just to clarify my method here, after the brew has stabilised in the fermenter - 2 days at the same grav (normally takes a full week at stable temperature) it goes into a cube for a few days ( normally filter to the cube to remove all the dry hop detritus). I try and make sure it isnt going to attenuate any further ( my preference here is a full week at least) and then chill it 24 hours before it's going to go in the keg to flocculate as much yeast as possible. once it hits the keg it gets pressurised straight away. I have filtered to keg but have found that if there is anything in the wort other than yeast, filtering is the biggest PIA. Time in the cube and 24-48 hours of chilling prior to kegging is as good as I need for my brew to clarify it. I'd like to naturally carbonate the kegs but I have been lazy lately and need to build up a store of full kegs before the warmer weather arrives.

I'm hoping to not be so lazy over the coming weeks and build my stock back up so the brews can sit a little longer in the cube before they end up in the keg.

and as for getting a foam shower when you burp the keg, never had 1, Guess I must leave enough head space ( I also made sure my hand covered the valve enough to stop any spray from covering me . Mind you, a beer shower cant be all bad.

My only unsolved issue with this whole keg business is that bottles used to make it easier to keep a tally of how much I drank, not that I was ever very good at it. The keg on the other had seems to be impossible.

:icon_offtopic: BTW if mothballs shakes his brew at 300 then it must bee OK - It was a luvly glass at the shop the other week Andrew.
(should learn to spell 1 day)

 

[BusinessTime]

Out of curiosity does anyone have figures on the comparative amount of time it takes to "Shake carb" a beer at serving pressure vs "Shake carbing" at the 250/300kpa .... ?? Is it significant as if it isn't shouldn't you just do that at pouring pressure to ensure the correct level of carbonation ?

 

[djt]

As a relatively newb to kegging (5 been and gorn), all these responses are really interesting. I was told:-

Keg your beer
Gas to 200kpa, then burp
Place in fridge at 3-4 deg/24hrs
Leave in fridge whilst gassing at 350kpa for another 24hrs
Wait a few days for slight metallic taste to dissapear
Dispense at 80-100kpa
Gas only needs to be on when pouring pressure drops

So far this method has been very hit and miss, trial and error. My beer always turns out spot-on in the end, but just a bit of muckin' around.

What are your thought on this one? Is there a better way - Snow's method seemed the easiest.

Any help for the newb?

My old man always said, 'if you don't ask, you don't find out'

 

[Fourstar]

- Chill to desired temperature,
- Use 'reckoner' (see balancing draught system article) to calculate CO2 volume required for carbonation.
- Connect and leave for a week @ this setting and temprature to reach saturation.
- connect beer line then pour @ this pressure. As the gas will be in balance with the beer all you need todo is adjust line length to suit the pour speed/resistance or flow control on your wall mounted tap.
- Finally enjoy!

and dont touch anything.... EVER again!

once you get this down pat, then worry about force carbing. if you want to play with force carbing beware of the risk of over-carbing. also have a stop valve on your gass too. you dont want to overcarb and forget to vent or have too much pressure in your keg and @ a later date and kill your regulator!

 

[Crusty]

I'm certainly no expert but I believe the slower method is definately the better way to go.
After it goes from the fermenter to the keg, you can add Co2 at serving pressure & burp it three short bursts & leave it to carbonate in the fridge. 7-10 days at 10-12psi ( 70-84kpa ) or thereabouts would be sufficiently carbonated. The beer definately tastes better after 7 days than overnight anyways. I don't see the point of force carbing at high pressure & drinking it that day, too green for me.
I kegged a Canadian Blonde at serving pressure, let it chill to 4 deg c overnight & upped the pressure to 230kpa for a full 48 hours. Burped the keg back to serving pressure & tried it on day 3. Definately better at day 7. All kegging from now on will be the 7-10 day serving pressure method.
Cheers,
Crusty

 

[tdack]

I like my wheat beers, so after putting them in the keg they get pressurised and burped to clear the O2 then they sit in the fridge for two days to cool down. After that it's 300kPa for 24 hours, burp, and pour at around 75kPa.

All my others have been ales as I haven't got the temp control (or patience yet) for a lager. I keg them, pressurise and then leave them sit for a week or two (or three) at room temp (16C - 18C lately). When it's time to drink they go in the fridge for a couple of days to chill, then 24 hours at around 250kPa, then burp and pour at 50-75kPa.

I did try the force carbonation a couple of times but ended up wasting too much because of foam from over carbonation. I've found the above gives me pretty consistent results and less wastage.

 

[Jye]

Out of curiosity does anyone have figures on the comparative amount of time it takes to "Shake carb" a beer at serving pressure vs "Shake carbing" at the 250/300kpa .... ?? Is it significant as if it isn't shouldn't you just do that at pouring pressure to ensure the correct level of carbonation ?

As said before its hard to judge. However when I use this method I pick the keg up to give it a good shake and within a minute you can stop hearing the co2 being drawn in.