Keg Beer Line Length Question

[gjhansford]

I've got my 6 keg chest freezer hooked up to 6 taps and I've never really worried about the length of the line between each keg and the tap. Mine are all quite short ... from only 400ml to maybe 800ml. And apart from the first pour of the day being a bit gassy ... they all settle down and are quite easy to pour.

However I read that it's recommended to have longer lines to create 'resistance' to improve the pour. 2-3 metres is recommended usually. This is with the gas at 10-14psi. My pressure wouldn't be that much ... so should I be increasing the line length and increasing the gas pressure? Apparently the problem with low pressure and short lines is the beer degasses ... mine don't seem to last long enough for that!

What's the experience of other brewers?

Thanks ...

ghhb

edit for smelling

 

[jonocarroll]

What type of taps do you have? If you've got flow-restricting taps (e.g. Celli's) then line length isn't so much an issue. It also depends on the height difference between the kegs and the taps, and the temperature difference.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

There is a useful spreadsheet floating around tinternet that gives all the relevant info, quite good too.
But for what its worth, my system sounds similar to yours, I use 1480mm of 5mm id line at 15psi, at 4c which gives me a lively pour and a carbonation of about 2.4 l.

 

[fraser_john]

Can be found Here

 

[gjhansford]

What type of taps do you have? If you've got flow-restricting taps (e.g. Celli's) then line length isn't so much an issue. It also depends on the height difference between the kegs and the taps, and the temperature difference.

4 of the taps are Shirron/Perlick and 1 Celli. The other is a second hand stout tap connected only to the stout keg and CO2/Nitro gas bottle. Photo:



Height differnce wouldn't be more than 100-150ml and temperature difference is zero. Photo:

 

[jonocarroll]

<snip> and temperature difference is zero.

If this were true, then you would indeed have very little issues.

However, I doubt it is true. Unless of course your serving temp inside the fridge is the same as your ambient temp in the room outside the fridge? Are you serving at 20*C or chilling the room to 6*C? Despite the taps being very close to the chesty, I think you'll find that they're still considerably warmer until at least a couple of pours in.

If you're serving at 10psi (a touch under 70kpa) then depending on serving temperature you may indeed get a nice clean pour. Even at 14psi (a touch under 100kpa) it could be justifiably smooth. I like to serve at about 120kpa with a 6*C serving temp and although the first pour will be mainly head as the tap warms up, the rest are solid (or liquid, as the case may be) gold, spot on. I have 3m of line, one leading to a Celli knock-off, the other to a micromatic.

 

[fraser_john]

I have the same taps and though mine is a fridge, setup is basically the same. I set my regulator on about 10-12psi and my line lengths are about 1.4 meters, from memory. Fridge is set to 3c on the Fridgemate.

My regulator must be dodgy as occassionally it creeps up to 16psi (may have had beer in it at some stage), at which point the beer starts to foam badly.

 

[gjhansford]

Thanks everyone ... I'll digest all the link infomation, place an order with Ross for some more line and have fun rejigging my system and getting it balanced at higher pressure. Looking forward to doing a bit of tinkering!

You know ... there's no end to the fun one can have with home brewing and kegging.

ghhb :icon_cheers:

 

[justsomeguy]

Remember that the inside diameter of the beer line also plays a part in just how much line you need between the keg and the tap. Larger line means longer length required to get the same pressure at the tap.

I was having all sorts of problems with my kegs until I figured out that I had different line diameters on some taps. Changed them all to the same diameter line and started getting consistent results on all taps. I'd recommend going for the thinnest beer line you can find. It simply means you won't need as much all coiled up in the freezer.

On my system I run around 1.3 metres of 4mm ID line at 12psi and get good results.


justsomeguy

 

[mxd]

yes the co2 pressure side of things is just killing me.

My setup

1 Degree @ 70 kpa, this should give me 2.5 to 2.6 carbonation

2.5 mtrs of line per tap, I have been over carbed and under carbed, so now I am just leaving it alone so hopefully it will balance out and be perfect.

 

[jonocarroll]

1 Degree @ 70 kpa

Brrr! I hope it's hot where you are... and you aren't wasting money on ingredients that provide a lot of flavour or aroma.

Horses for courses I guess.

 

[under]

Here. Check the attachment. the only thing I dont get in it is -

3. How high is your tap above the centre of the keg?

Do we measure from the top of the keg in the centre to the tap, or the half way up the keg to the tap?

View attachment co2_and_keg_balancing_v1.1.xls

 

[clintmo]

I've never really worried about the length of the line between each keg and the tap. Mine are all quite short ... from only 400ml to maybe 800ml.

You truly are a beer drinker expressing beer line lengths in terms of litres lol

 

[fraser_john]

Here. Check the attachment. the only thing I dont get in it is -

3. How high is your tap above the centre of the keg?

Do we measure from the top of the keg in the centre to the tap, or the half way up the keg to the tap?

half way up the keg to the tap

 

[gjhansford]

Okay ...

I've decided to re-jig my keg & tap set up ... getting more line from CB ... using the Excel Spreadsheet to calculate required line length ... run my regulator at a higher pressure.

Now ... what about setting it up to pour beers with differnt levels of carbonation. I usually have english ales (low carb) aussie and US ales/Euro lagers (medium carb) and wheaties (high carb) on tap but I only have one gas bottle and one regulator. So far I haven't really worried about this ... just grateful to have beer that's drinkable coming out of the taps!

The spreadsheet suggests different line lengths for different levels of carbonation ... but is that right?

I usually naturally condition by beers using differnt amounts of dextrose depending on the carb level required (using ProMash calc feature). So the carb level in the keg is right. Do I just change the line length for the different styles to suit ... using the excel spreadsheet to determine the length?

Or am I way off track here?

Thanks guys ...

ghhb :unsure:

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I was over at SAH's place and he was dispensing a really highly carbed Hefe

He was using a Celli tap to control the flow and a check valve on the keg to hold the higher carbonation independently of the other kegs in the fridge

Without a bit of fiddling it would be difficult to have kegs dispensing at different carbonation - as they will eventually reach equilibrium depending on temp and CO2 pressure with a single regulator

In any event having extra line means that your beer will pour a little slower - so an easy way to do things would be to start with extra line and trim it until you are happy with pour speed and foam

Cheers

 

[mxd]

line length is purely for getting the right pour.

If you want different carbonation you either need different regs or different fridges for temperature.

 

[cdbrown]

You can have different levels of carbonation due to the natural conditioning, however the pressures will end up settling across all the kegs over time. Non return valves on the gas lines will help prevent the higher pressure kegs increasing the pressure in the lower kegs. But even then as you aren't constantly applying the higher pressure to those kegs the carbonation will decrease. Cheap reg like you get on a air compressor perhaps?

 

[jonocarroll]

Now ... what about setting it up to pour beers with differnt levels of carbonation. I usually have english ales (low carb) aussie and US ales/Euro lagers (medium carb) and wheaties (high carb) on tap but I only have one gas bottle and one regulator.

Without a bit of fiddling it would be difficult to have kegs dispensing at different carbonation - as they will eventually reach equilibrium depending on temp and CO2 pressure with a single regulator

If you want different carbonation you either need different regs or different fridges for temperature.

I guess no-one else sees the easy solution... Suppose you are doing one hefe and two lagers. Pressurise ONE keg (the hefe) to a higher pressure, then disconnect it from the gas. Return the reg. to the lower pressure, then carbonate the rest of the kegs. With the hefe disconnected from the reg you won't get the pressures shared between kegs of different pressures. The only thing you'll need to do is top up the hefe keg with high pressure every once in a while (d/c all the kegs, up the pressure on the reg, charge up the hefe, d/c, lower pressure, r/c other kegs).

Simple, no?
Edit: 'sup with the smilies? Stuff it - B) isn't working.

 

[mxd]

you'ld want to fill the hefe keg up with the correct pressue after us otherwise it will loos carbonation.