K&k Cage Match

[mfdu]

i just grabbed a Cascade Imperial Pale Ale kit from the supermarket, with Coopers brew enchancer #1.

i've got some spare hops (cascade, or simcoe) which i can late-hop with.

what do people think of the Cascade kits vs. the Coopers kits? better wort? better yeast? or worse?

chris.

 

[wambesi]

i just grabbed a Cascade Imperial Pale Ale kit from the supermarket, with Coopers brew enchancer #1.

i've got some spare hops (cascade, or simcoe) which i can late-hop with.

what do people think of the Cascade kits vs. the Coopers kits? better wort? better yeast? or worse?

chris.

I only ever did one cascade kit when I was K&K'ing and it was quite nice, it was the choc mahogony brewed to wassa's honey porter recipe.

Other than that I almost used coopers exclusively - normally the international or heritage range.
There has been a lot of bad writings on most of the cascade range.

Dress them up with some hops, malt extracts (instead of dex) and maybe some specialty grains and they should come up alright still.

 

[Dave86]

I've made good K&K beers with both brands but haven't done a lot of them so don't really have enough experience with them to pass comment other than that it's possible to make a good beer with either but the cascade yeast is a PITA. Turf the yeast and get yourself some s-04 or us-56 (especially with those hops), much more reliable and it'll improve the end result

 

[quantocks]

I did a Cascade Spicy Ghost, took days for the yeast to start any form of activity, and the end result was piss poor so I tipped it out.

 

[rclemmett]

I can't comment on the cascade goo, but I did a partial mash stout with the yeast. It took a couple of days to start, and seven days at 20C to ferment out. Very different to the coopers yeast which tends to take of like a rocket and finish quickly. I found the cascade yeast had an excellent flavour and would use it again.

In my experience the cascade yeast suits english style beers and the coopers yeast works well in an APA. That being said, I would use s04 and us05 before either of the other two.

 

[Bribie G]

I've never used a Cascade kit, I think the real debate is between Coopers and Morgans IMHO. I always ignore the kit yeast nowadays - use it for ginger beer - and in the winter will use a Saflager S23 from Fermentis for lager -type beers but here in SEQ in the summer I'm using Nottingham for almost everything - brilliant yeast. Have also used S04 with good results. It's a few dollars a packet for the specialty yeasts but I always get a run of three or four brews out of a packet.

 

[marlow_coates]

I reckon the Cascade Mahogonay Porter is a top drop with a simple KG of sugar (from the old days )

Only cascade I have done though. Used their yeast. 1 week in primary. 1 week in secondary. Came out really nice after a month in bottles and improved with further aging.

Just chuck something together and see how it goes I reckon.

The main thing with a twocan is to be carefull of over bittering. Check the websites for IBU info and you will be surprised by how quickly you can get an over bittered beer.

Hope this helps.

 

[HoppingMad]

I did a Cascade Spicy Ghost, took days for the yeast to start any form of activity, and the end result was piss poor so I tipped it out.

+1 on the Spicy Ghost. Took yonks to start then really didn't - then tasted horrid. Up there with one of my worst K&K experiences ever. I'd give the thumbs up to the Cascade Pale Ale kit though- very good.

Am a Coopers convert from way back though - dependable, and very tasty when you add to them. Did a coopers stout with a little dark malt, some fuggles and licorice powder. Yum! :icon_cheers:

A mate of mine was talking to Dr Tim Coopers the other day when he was in Melbourne and he recommended doing a simple double can brew with the stout and dark ale together - said it comes close to the real stout.

Hopper.

 

[mfdu]

+1 on the Spicy Ghost. Took yonks to start then really didn't - then tasted horrid. Up there with one of my worst K&K experiences ever. I'd give the thumbs up to the Cascade Pale Ale kit though- very good.
Hopper.

thanks hoppy.

hopefully the imperial pale ale won't disappoint. after all - it was $4 more than the Coopers cans, but i figured "what the hell - give it a try"

should have it on this weekend, so i'll report back.

mfdu

 

[Dicko ACT]

+1 on the Spicy Ghost. Took yonks to start then really didn't - then tasted horrid. Up there with one of my worst K&K experiences ever. I'd give the thumbs up to the Cascade Pale Ale kit though- very good.

Am a Coopers convert from way back though - dependable, and very tasty when you add to them. Did a coopers stout with a little dark malt, some fuggles and licorice powder. Yum! :icon_cheers:

A mate of mine was talking to Dr Tim Coopers the other day when he was in Melbourne and he recommended doing a simple double can brew with the stout and dark ale together - said it comes close to the real stout.

Hopper.

+2

Spicy Ghost was my first Cascade K&K and my first infection [topic="21909"]Tragedy Strikes[/topic]. I took a sample to Colin of BYOAH in Canberra. He explained that it was a 'wild yeast infection' that was born from using a dodgy yeast strain (supplied in the kit).

I wrote a letter to the Cascade Brewery detailing my experience. About 2 months later they replied with a generic letter requesting a range of additional information; time and date purchased, price paid, brew date, original gravity, volume etc before they could offer a resolution. I was dissapointed with their resolve and by that time I had already started AG.

Out of interest, I never had a problem with Coopers kits with over 20 batches.

 

[Fermented]

I'm still really new to this and only have a couple of Coopers under my belt so far (Heritage Lager, now bottled 6 days and Cerveza (blame my wife for that one - she wanted to have a go too), now bottled two days)).

To put it in perspective, before getting into HB we usually bought the Amsterdam cans (500 ml) because at $40 a slab, it's cheap and cheerful beer (cold, wet bubbly, contains alcohol, etc). However, after trying the 330 ml test bottles of the Coopers Heritage Lager, Amsterdam has now been consigned to the swill list. Even only <30% of the way through secondary it was superior to Dutch Megaswill. I'm sure it will be much better after a month or three.

I haven't tried Cascade kits and seriously doubt that I will as I've already migrated to fresh wort but will still come back to Coopers Brewmaster and Premium series as a base in making clones. However, better yeasts will be in play at that time too.

In short (tl;dr), Coopers = good and fast and no fuss for a reasonable result even from a rank beginner.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[brilinjo]

I had a bad experience with Cascade Choc Mahogany Porter, and another Cascade I can't quite remember at the moment, so I've sworn not to go near them again no matter how pretty the can is, and how sexy the name on the can sounds.

If I want a cheapish K&K I now only use Coopers supermarket kits, with Brewcraft enhancers to give additional complexity.

 

[Kleiny]

I used both cascade and coopers when k&k

found that they where both decent kits which gave good results with either LDME or liquid extract instead of suger and some dry hopping
I did stop using the kit yeast and used safale or saflager yeast from the LHBS after a couple of dead packs, for a couple of $$ far better result

good luck

 

[Gavo]

I had a bad experience with Cascade Choc Mahogany Porter,

I have one of these that has been in the bottle for at least two months now. brewed it with 1kg of LDME and 1kg of dex and kit yeast. I opened one of these last night and poured all but one mouthful down the sink. Coopers supermarket kits have been good to me and as mentioned in other threads the Coopers Real Ale is a good kit and improves well with time in the bottle.
For me Coopers = Good kit , Cascade = Bad kit , although this may be just personal taste. I would try another Cascade kit but I am leaving kits in my dust.

Cheers :icon_cheers:
Gavo

 

[kenlock]

I've had a great result with a Cascade Spicy Ghost pitched over Heineken Kit Clone (S23) yeast cake. 8 blokes over, all with compliments for the flavour and head.

Also had a mates version from a stubby which had 'cellared' for a while.

Lucky Me??????

 

[brilinjo]

I have one of these that has been in the bottle for at least two months now. brewed it with 1kg of LDME and 1kg of dex and kit yeast. I opened one of these last night and poured all but one mouthful down the sink. Coopers supermarket kits have been good to me and as mentioned in other threads the Coopers Real Ale is a good kit and improves well with time in the bottle.
For me Coopers = Good kit , Cascade = Bad kit , although this may be just personal taste. I would try another Cascade kit but I am leaving kits in my dust.

Cheers :icon_cheers:
Gavo

I can't quite describe the taste, it was just odd. Didn't even improve with a dash of lemonade.

 

[Pollux]

I tried doing a Cascade Pale Ale with 1kg Coopers BE1 and 500g Coopers LDME, it was horrid and still is......

Meanwhile every Coopers I have done has been much better, even my first with brewing sugar.

Just can't justify spending the extra 3 odd dollars for the Cascade......

 

[Gavo]

I can't quite describe the taste, it was just odd. Didn't even improve with a dash of lemonade.

Yes the taste was odd, not off. A bit like hot fruit salad at the end of Christmas day and you already have a belly full of ham, turkey and chicken. Or a hot ferment although mine was done at 18 degrees. I will leave it for many many months boxed and hidden and you never know, maybe it will improve a little.

I tried doing a Cascade Pale Ale with 1kg Coopers BE1 and 500g Coopers LDME, it was horrid and still is......

Meanwhile every Coopers I have done has been much better, even my first with brewing sugar.

Have you used the Coopers LDME with Coopers kits? If so what are the results? I am having a feeling that the Coopers malt gives a little fruitier taste than the LDME you would by from a HBS.

 

[Pollux]

Have you used the Coopers LDME with Coopers kits? If so what are the results? I am having a feeling that the Coopers malt gives a little fruitier taste than the LDME you would by from a HBS.

Several times over, still find it better than the Cascade kit...

That said, once I have made my next batches I plan of ordering some hops/yeast/LDME from absolute homebrew, and using these in conjunction with coopers real ale kits, I shall report back once these have reached drinkability.....

 

[Gavo]

Several times over, still find it better than the Cascade kit...

That said, once I have made my next batches I plan of ordering some hops/yeast/LDME from absolute homebrew, and using these in conjunction with coopers real ale kits,

I would have to say that my kits improved when I ditched the kit yeast which was the same time I stopped using Coopers LDME, so I don't really now which made the greater improvement; I think it was the yeast. I believe though that by adding extra hops, when using malt instead of dex, is required to balance out the malt; I didn't get this far with kits before I started extract brewing. Coopers Real Ale has been one of my best Coopers experiences; even with only the kilo of dex it builds and maintains a good head and good clean flavour. So good luck combining it with hops, non kit yeast and LDME. It should make a good brew.

Cheers