Jsaa Clone Kit

[Jase71]

Somebody's wearing his cranky pants today.

 

[MarkBastard]

haha i am. ive got a farken headache and just want to go home and pour a beer hahahaha

sorry

 

[cdbrown]

Just tell 'em to piss off and live up to your name ya bastard :beerbang:

Would be interested to know whether these clone kits actually produce a clone or just something which tastes similar but is still good in it's own right. Just like all the different variations on the same theme which each individual brewer comes up with claiming it's a clone - and maybe to their taste buds.

I like the idea of these kits as they can be an easy way for a new brewer to make something similar to what they like, but don't have full confidence that it will produce a clone which of course can then put the said homebrewers off making more and being more adventurous (not that I'm very adventurous).

 

[MarkBastard]

Would be interested to know whether these clone kits actually produce a clone or just something which tastes similar but is still good in it's own right. Just like all the different variations on the same theme which each individual brewer comes up with claiming it's a clone - and maybe to their taste buds.

I've never really understood the need to have a full perfect clone. As long as it's comparable in overall quality and is a very similar style it's enough for me. In a lot of ways I preferred the JSAA clone (Tony's recipe) to the real thing, but I'm sure a lot of that is psychological because I made it myself and I had it on tap in my own house etc.

What I imagine these clone kits to be is 'close enough'.

I like the idea of these kits as they can be an easy way for a new brewer to make something similar to what they like, but don't have full confidence that it will produce a clone which of course can then put the said homebrewers off making more and being more adventurous (not that I'm very adventurous).

Yeah. I just bought them because I've been slack lately and find I don't have a lot of spare time. I want to just get two beers in my kegs quickly as I have four kegs and three of them are currently empty! Then I can spend more time getting my BIAB all grain rig going and I'll probably make a Bock.

Try not to knock things before I try them either way. If these end up being really handy and good quality / price / convenience ratio I may use them in the future for my staples when I can't be arsed doing anything better.

 

[boingk]

I've never really understood the need to have a full perfect clone. As long as it's comparable in overall quality and is a very similar style it's enough for me. <snip>

Pretty much the same here. I did a 'clone' kit from the LHBS for a Becks, and while it wasn't Becks as I'd had it, it was certainly pleasing. If anything, I would have picked it over the commercial example because it had a bit more hop bite. Thats my experience with a 'clone kit', so hopefully yours goes well too.

Cheers - boingk

 

[unterberg]

Pretty much the same here. I did a 'clone' kit from the LHBS for a Becks, and while it wasn't Becks as I'd had it, it was certainly pleasing. If anything, I would have picked it over the commercial example because it had a bit more hop bite. Thats my experience with a 'clone kit', so hopefully yours goes well too.

Cheers - boingk

I definitly agree to that!
As long as you like it I wouldnt even bother wasting time to actually get the clone closer...

 

[unterberg]

Reading this I think I will give Tonys recipe a go and put one down soon.
I was wondering if I could substitute the liquid malt with ldme. Thought about 2.4kg that should be about the 3kg liquid malt.
And does the bittering of the hops change if I were to use 5l of water with 1kg of malt to do the bittering in.
And finally what hops could I use instead of Willamette?
Got Hersbrucker, Hallertau, Saaz, Amarillo and Tettnang.

I think Tettnang would probably be alright.

 

[MarkBastard]

The JSAA kit arrived today. Won't be able to pitch it for a while cause I couldn't resist putting an irish red down on the weekend.

 

[Mantis]

I made Tonys extract brew as my first step away from kits months ago. I didnt have the hops he suggested and subbed some I had on hand.
Anyway, it prompted me to get a 28kg tin of extract which has long gone, then 20 tins of extract from Coopers and only 1 of those left
From there I went onto partial mashes using the BIAB method in my 12lt pot
Here is the latest Amber ale that I am drinking as I type



3kg Coopers pale malt
2.1kg JW Traditional ale
300g Crystal
50g chocolate20g Chinook 11.1 60min
15g Amarillo 8.2 40min
15g Amarillo 8.2 20min
15g Amarillo 8.2 0min
Make up to 25lt
US-05 yeast
I know many will cringe at the use of Amarillo but eh, I like them.
On the weekend I made two more of the above but with Cascade instead of the amarillo and POR instead of the Chinook in one
Loving the Ambers :chug:

I havent made an amber ale kit but have made one of the ESB 3kg kits and it was very good

Partial mashes with BIAB are so easy

 

[goomboogo]

Mantis, you say some may cringe at your use of amarillo and you are correct, some will. But many won't. You hit the nail on the head when you state you use them because you like them. I think you'll find many of the people who say don't use amarillo are merely saying that it is a flavour they don't like and there are other hops they prefer. I like amarillo but in particular in combination with other hop varieties. I like amarillo with cascade and simcoe. My next APA will have late additions of amarillo, cascade and galaxy.

 

[Gavo]

What's the advantage of getting a kit for that price, when you could do an extract brew and control the hopping for around the same price ? I'm about to embark on a JSGA clone, and I'm sure the cost won't be too different. Lets punch the numbers:

$6 for 60g hops
$15 for wheat malt
$12 for pale malt
$2 for 150g crystal malt
$0 for recultured yeast

So that's $35, a mere $4 more for a beer that I have more control over than a kit.

Jase, Interesting to see this comment. A few months ago we were discussing the similar, I think. Correct me if I am wrong. even more interesting that I was playing with beersmith just last night for something like one of these Amber Ales. Was toying with a partial with 2.4 kg of grain topped up with some LDME and the cost for 19 litres is $26 and for 22 litres $28 and thats allowing $1 for recultured yeast. Much better than a kit to boot, even get to control final colour and malt profiles.

Unterberg, the hop additions will change boiling 1 kg of malt in 5 lt of water as it will give you a preboil gravity of around 1070 for LDME, therfore your hop utilization will change. You should add enough malt to your boil to achieve a prebiol gravity of at least around your FG in order to get a better and mor predictable hop utilization. This is particularly useful for getting bitterness levels correct.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[MarkBastard]

FWIW...

This is what I paid to make Tony's extract brew.
1.5L - Pale LME - $10
1.5L - Pale LME - $10
300g - Caramunich II (Weyermann) $1.65 (craft brewer)
30g - Chocolate Malt $0.18 (craft brewer)
40g - Willamette Pellet 45min $7.50 (craft brewer, 90g)
20g - Willamette Pellet 5 min
12g - Safale US-05 (11.5gm) $4.90 (craft brewer)

= $34.23 with 30g Willamette hops leftover

This kit I bought is about the same price. Slightly cheaper. Came with S04 yeast. Dunno what the result is like because I haven't made it yet.

A partial mash replacing one of the LME cans with 2kg of Ale Malt would be $32.23. A full all grain with 4kg of Ale malt and no LME would be $30.23

So to round it up, there's 4 options I've outlined.

EzyBrew Kit
Price: $34
Quality: ?
Customisation: N/A, additions only
Skill level: Extremely easy
Wort creation time: 0 minutes
Wort creation equipment required: None.
Chilling required to pitch straight away: depends on ambient temperature of water only

Tony's extract recipe
Price: $34.23
Quality: Very good
Customisation: possible
Skill level: intermediate
Wort creation time: 2 hours (including prep, bringing pot to boil, waiting for grains to steep, etc)
Wort creation equipment required: Large pot, stove top, fine strainer etc
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, though you're supplementing half cold tap water so a few hours in a fridge or leave overnight.

Partial mash
Price: $32.23
Quality: ?
Customisation: possible
Skill level: high intermediate
Wort creation time: 4 hours
Wort creation equipment requirement: Large pot, stove, fine strainer, possibly BIAB bag, possibly more depending on preference
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, as above.

Full mash
Price: $30.23
Quality: ?
Customisation: full
Skill level: high
Wort creation time: 4 hours
Wort creation equipment required: Skys the limit. Full size BIAB pot or traditional equipment
Chilling required to pitch straight away: Yes, considerable.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to choose the option that suits you best, those are the facts above.

 

[unterberg]

Jase, Interesting to see this comment. A few months ago we were discussing the similar, I think. Correct me if I am wrong. even more interesting that I was playing with beersmith just last night for something like one of these Amber Ales. Was toying with a partial with 2.4 kg of grain topped up with some LDME and the cost for 19 litres is $26 and for 22 litres $28 and thats allowing $1 for recultured yeast. Much better than a kit to boot, even get to control final colour and malt profiles.

Unterberg, the hop additions will change boiling 1 kg of malt in 5 lt of water as it will give you a preboil gravity of around 1070 for LDME, therfore your hop utilization will change. You should add enough malt to your boil to achieve a prebiol gravity of at least around your FG in order to get a better and mor predictable hop utilization. This is particularly useful for getting bitterness levels correct.

Cheers
Gavo.

Thanks. What I was getting to is this (hope its a bit clearer now):
Does the volume you do the bittering in matter if you have the same gravity? Meaning could I get the same bittering result if I achieve the same FG in eg 5l instead of 12l using the same amount of hops/schedule?

 

[kram]

Yo Mark, to not intimidate/overwhelm newcomers I wouldn't say AG has a high skill level. Its a fairly simple process and I see it as just being time consuming.

There's nothing like spending 6.5 hours on your first AG but haha

 

[Gavo]

Thanks. What I was getting to is this (hope its a bit clearer now):
Does the volume you do the bittering in matter if you have the same gravity? Meaning could I get the same bittering result if I achieve the same FG in eg 5l instead of 12l using the same amount of hops/schedule?

Pretty much. I usually do a minimum boil of 7 lt just for a bit more, for the wan't of a better description, control in the boil. The largest boil I have done is a partial is 9 lt to achieve the desired pre-boil gravity. usually this has been with the liquid from 2 - 2 1/2 kg of grain.
Boil as much as you feel comfortable with in the equipment you have, at the end of the day we use what is available to us and are aiming to make repeatable results.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[Gavo]

I wouldn't say AG has a high skill level. Its a fairly simple process and I see it as just being time consuming.

I have done one AG 15 lt so far and found the process fairly simple and the results very good (just tasted one yesterday :icon_drool2: ). Hardest part was that it was done on the kitchen stove (it is a pretty large five burner and double oven). But..... I will be waiting until I get my burner and a few other things together so I can do it outside.
AG can be done fairly simply without a lot of gear it just takes longer (mine took 3 1/2 hours, although abit like the army, hurry up and wait) but the results are great.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[kram]

I have done one AG 15 lt so far and found the process fairly simple and the results very good (just tasted one yesterday :icon_drool2: ). Hardest part was that it was done on the kitchen stove (it is a pretty large five burner and double oven). But..... I will be waiting until I get my burner and a few other things together so I can do it outside.
AG can be done fairly simply without a lot of gear it just takes longer (mine took 3 1/2 hours, although abit like the army, hurry up and wait) but the results are great.

Cheers
Gavo.

Yeah the kitchen stove is a killer. My first AG was done on the vintage electric stove with two pots, a 19l and 15l. Had to boil with the lids 90% on as it wouldn't boil otherwise and had to stand there the whole time controlling the boil overs. Didn't even get to add the yeast, the wort picked up some wild stuff the day after I brewed it!

There was a reason why it took 2 months before my next AG, had to get my setup going before attempting another one haha. Now i'm a fan of the lunch time mash, fill the HLT bucket o' death for sparging, set the timer and start the sparge when I get home from work, cuts the time down nicely.

 

[MarkBastard]

bucket of death hahaha

bunnings fermenter with electric element shoved in the side anyone?

 

[MarkBastard]

I've just cleaned out the fermenter and put this JSAA clone kit in. Haven't pitched the yeast yet as the wort was 28 degrees with no hot water addition. Bloody summer.

The kit is 4.5L and is a proper liquid consistency, it's not in any way like a normal syrup kit. Obviously it's condensed but not to the point where it stops being a liquid. It's more like a condensed fresh wort kit than a regular kit.

Looks and smells nice so far. Will add the included S04 yeast later on.

 

[Gavo]

bucket of death hahaha

bunnings fermenter with electric element shoved in the side anyone?

Yep done safely it works great. Good Cheap HLT.

Cheers
Gavo.