James Squire Beers - Doomed?

[jgriffin]

Ok i know a few people on this forum bag the JS range of beers, but i used to really like them. The porter is one of my favourite beers, and the Amber ale used to be my favourite beer full stop.

But ever since the labels have started saying "brewer by Malt Shovel brewery or associated companies" or whatever it actually says, i think that there beers have sucked the big one.

I won't even comment on the Pilsner, but the one that broke my heart was the Amber Ale. It used to have such a fruity aroma, and was very interesting, but the last 3 six packs or so, have tasted like bloody carlton cold. I don't know what the hell happened, i'm assuming that they shifted production to a certain namless mega brew company, and that the yeast has been changed - it certainly tastes like it is brewed with a lager yeast now.

I just pray that the Porter and Strong Ale don't go the same way.

 

[Doc]

I'm with you on the Amber ale.
Used to be one of my favs. Then production moved to the "mega-brewery" and the beer sucked.
Last time I did a brewery tour their they said the Pilsener would be next as they were outgrowing their capacity.
From memory they also mentioned that the "mega-brewery" also only liked to use "their" yeast.
The pains of growth and getting popular.
Isn't is always the way. Guys like us support them when they are small and growing, but when they get big and have to start changing to meet demand we desert them in favour of the new small guy.

My $0.02

Doc

 

[Dunkel_Boy]

I thought strong ale was a seasonal anyway?
I've only ever had the MSB ones... that explains why I thought the amber was fairly average, and the pilsener was just shocking.
Actually the pils was really bad, very disappointing, mostly the colour and texture.
I'll have to go for a big sample session.
Last one I tried was the Golden Ale, which, as the label stated, was laced with Amarillo, not that I minded. I thought it was actually a nice beer.

 

[Doc]

I thought strong ale was a seasonal anyway?
I've only ever had the MSB ones... =

[post="46460"][/post]​

Hey DB,

The Strong Ale is seasonal. Don't get me started on the 2004 Strong Ale vs the 2003 Strong Ale (try the search function).
The Amber ale is the one we were discussing.
However I note you are in BrisVegas. The JS/MSB brews don't have an overly good rep on this forum for travelling outside Sydney. Even then it can be a bit hit and miss.

Doc

 

[Gough]

Funny this topic should come up.

I've been a bit of a JS defender on this forum, but my experience of late hasn't been that great either. I bought a sixie of the Pilsner a few weeks ago and it was a darker, 'lamer' brew than it used to be IMHO. Why it should be darker I don't really know. I also visited the 'brewhouse' on King St Wharf for the second time in 2 years and was... underwhelmed. I think Chuck is a great brewer - I'd love to have anything like his knowledge and skill, but I think we are perhaps beginning to see the JS beers go the way of the original Hahn beers. I really hope I'm wrong.

For what it is worth I still think the IPA and the Porter are really good beers. Had an IPA on tap at the brewhouse and it almost made up for the disappointment of their one 'on-premises' brew which we'd come a long way to drink. The bottled stuff is still good last time I tried it. I haven't totally lost the faith yet!

Shawn.

 

[Ross]

I have always regarded their Amber ale very highly - not drunk one for a few months - looks like there's not much point in buying it again - a real pity...

 

[Dunkel_Boy]

Sorry, didn't mean to digress.
I'm just really excited about this paley I'm about to rack to secondary.
Oops, there I go again.

 

[Weizguy]

Doc (my mentor),

I hear ya on the JS range. It travels well to Newcastle, but haven't had any since the Golden Ale (good quaffing beer, but a bit overpriced for what it is).

Does anyone else remember what happened to the JS Summer Wheat? :angry:
I reckon that it was the best commercial Wit in the country for 2 (maybe 3 seasons). Now they don't make it any more, but you can get Parent Company Witbier (sometimes) and they have gutted it out to the point where I don't want to know about it. It is no longer an ale, and is made with the Parent Company's lager yeast. Big mistake. Oh, and I'm sure they changed the recipe, too!

I feel strongly about this. As U said, I was more than happy to support them when they were producing beers that I enjoyed. But now, they can shove (most of) their beer sideways.

Did I abandon them, or did they forsake me first? U can make up your own mind.
My opinion is that they chose profit over quality.

JS was always the testbed for "Parent Company". Shame that they test beer that works in a "micro" setting and doesn't adapt well to "mega" techniques.

...or maybe I'm cranky about my London Pride clone which has wild yeast in it. Lucky I took a soupon out of the Activator pack and cultured it. Take 2 soon.

My generous value for 2 cents worth. Testify!!

Brother Seth

 

[Gerard_M]

ALL IS NOT LOST

When the Pilsner outgrew the Camperdown Brewery, I was a little sad. I was working on the production line at MSB & Tooheys at the time. We had a few Pils after a shift one night at MSB, and all agreed it was a shame. A victim of its own success. I have tried a few since and am yet to experience anything that is ugly. I have always thought it survived the move, but then it is not that often that I drink a beer I didn't make.
My advise would be only drink the beers that are still brewed at Camperdown. Porter, IPA, and the seasonal stuff such as Golden Ale. I had a few Porters at a place in Dee Why the other week with my Dad (huge black beer fan) and we were both pretty happy with it. If you don't live in Sydney drink something that is closer to home.
Cheers
Gerard

 

[slimy frog]

I must say the golden ale is still my all time favourite. I'd be cut if it was outsourced.

 

[Plastic Man]

The IPA has got to make it to QLD OK.

It made it to India in the old days ...............


Talking about MSB travelling to QLD. Anyone see that documentary about the beer truck that went off the road and into the tweed river, (I think it was the tweed river). They were fishing James squire off the botton for weeks. It's a classic if you can hunt it down.

 

[NRB]

Interesting to read this. I'm of the same opinion to a lot of you - JS Amber has been my favourite local brew for a number of years. I recently purchased a 6er that was a little disappointing. It seemed to lack the maltiness I remember. It was still a tasty drop, but seemed to be a shadow of its former self... I thought my tastebuds were playing up :unsure:

 

[joecast]

From memory they also mentioned that the "mega-brewery" also only liked to use "their" yeast.



well, if thats the case, they should only brew "their" beers! sounds like they are more concerned with $ than producing the best beer they can. i havent had a js brew in a while and really like dthe amber and ipa. might have to try them again and see for myself. id be really disappointed if the amber was downgraded.
joe

 

[Samwise Gamgee]

The Golden Ale is their best in my opinion!

Instead of moving the brewing of some beers to big breweries where they do a shitty job, they should just keep their product in high demand and maybe even increase the price.

I'd rather pay more for something good than pay the same for a crap result and I would think anybody else who has tasted and loved the original JS beers would also be happy to fork out a little more if you knew the quality was going to be consistantly high.

 

[Hopeye]

You really shouldn't blame the boys at Camperdown. It's their bosses at Lion Nathan & Kirin that make the decisions about $$$$. They're just looking after their shareholders like any big corporation..... I don't condon it, though I do understand it.

 

[Rubes]

From memory they also mentioned that the "mega-brewery" also only liked to use "their" yeast.

I think this is fairly common in commercial breweries? Running multiple yeasts in their sized scale equipment is not as easy as tipping in a litre of yeast. They need very large quantities of the stuff and pump it around so have to add extra storage tanks and piping. This all costs money. And we all know that what a mega-brewery likes most is spending extra money to improve their product. Not!

 

[RichLum]

Interesting this topic should come up.
I was discussing this about 2 weeks ago with some mates at our local (Quarrymans Hotel).
The JS Amber Ale on tap was my fave beer there but lately it's started to taste completely different. It's a lot sweeter than it used to be and less bitter and aroma.
I've switched to the Coopers Sparkling on tap instead now.
I've never bought the Amber Ale in the bottle so not sure about that.
Had the Porter and Strong Ale recently in the bottle and both still tasted good

Rich

 

[Bobby]

i am with richlum, i used to buy js amber on tap all the time at uni, then it changed, really sweet and very little aroma. there beer got worse as it warmed up, it was the opposite before.

 

[RichLum]

Is there a Tooheys forum or similar we can post this to?
Maybe no-one realises that people have noticed a difference ...
Whether or not they care enough to do anything about it is another matter....

 

[roach]

From memory they also mentioned that the "mega-brewery" also only liked to use "their" yeast.

I think this is fairly common in commercial breweries? Running multiple yeasts in their sized scale equipment is not as easy as tipping in a litre of yeast. They need very large quantities of the stuff and pump it around so have to add extra storage tanks and piping. This all costs money. And we all know that what a mega-brewery likes most is spending extra money to improve their product. Not!

[post="46510"][/post]​

I am reliably informed that MSB has preserved the formulation of the 2 beers with their shift to Tooheys, including insisting on maintaining the original yeast strains (Ale & Lager respectively). Any attempts by the bigger brewery to
rationalise the lager yeast to one of their strains, has not been allowed.


BTW, I have no affiliations with MSB or Tooheys whatsoever etc etc