Is Extract Better Than Kits?

[dc59]

Hey guys and girls

Just wondering what people more knowledgable than myself (thats most of you ) thought about the advantages of extract brewing over kit brewing.

I understand the advantage of being able to select your own hops and boil for your own desired time, but does it actually produce a better beer?

Thanks Dave.

 

[OzBeer_MD]

Hey guys and girls

Just wondering what people more knowledgable than myself (thats most of you ) thought about the advantages of extract brewing over kit brewing.

I understand the advantage of being able to select your own hops and boil for your own desired time, but does it actually produce a better beer?

Thanks Dave.

Youve kinda started a duplicate thread.

Look for the thread titled "Tell the truth" its currently on the list at the top of any page. Happy reading and brewing Dravid

MD

EDIT: heres a link http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=20871

 

[floppinab]

Youve kinda started a duplicate thread.

erm, not really Doc, that's more of an extract/kit vs AG thread

Dravid for the very reasons you have stated you will get a better beer. Kits are generally hopped with a hop extract which gives a very limited level of particularly hop flavour and aroma, things you will do much better with a decent boil and real hops.

That leaves the dreaded extract "twang". I've found if you have the capability of doing a full boil (i.e getting your full quantity of water ~30 odd litres, fully dissolve the full level of extract in that, and do a full 60 min boil with your hop additions) that can negate the twang somewhat, as opposed to doing a limited boil and dissolving the extract in the fermenter just prior to adding yeast as per standard kit method.
Darker beers from extract are generally better than lighter beers, something in the darker malts helps preserve the extract I think.

 

[ibast]

by the time you sterilise, a kit takes about an hour all told. Because you can work whilst you sterilise, an extract takes about 1.5 hours. What am I banging on about? Well just that it's worth the extra 1/2 hour.

You can get genuine Hop flavour as opposed to just bitterness and you can do a mini-mash at the same time to add that final real grain flavour. Add to that it doesn't cost that much to set up for it (a decent saucepan is all you really need).

So for me at the moment it is the best style of brewing. It's better than the kits and not that far behind all-grain, yet it doesn't take a whole day to do. It's easier to keep the kit clean than all grains and the gear you need for all grain is quite dear (to do properly).

So go for it.

 

[Parrothead]

Hello all, new to this Forum, all the way from the cold, wet US East Coast.

I think it all really depends on what you like and what your situation is. I've been brewing for 9 years. I started on canned kits, moved on to extract with specialty grains, to all grain. I've made some very good to excellant beers with all of them, as well as some real stinkers, too. I enjoy all of the methods of brewing, as there is always something to learn.

Right now, I'm enjoying doing kits again. All-grain is fun, but in my life right now I just don't have the luxury of the time needed to do all-grain properly. I can brew up a kit in about an hour or less, and make a decent beer. This past Sunday, for example, I made up a Cooper's Bavarian Lager. Took about 45 minutes, made a few modifications to the basic recipe, and I'm confident I'll have a decent beer in a few weeks. If I could have set aside the 4 to 6 hours needed to do an all-grain, I would have done that.

So, to answer your original question, "is extract better than kits?", I'd say the answer is whatever works best for you. After all, you only have to please yourself, at least when it comes to home brewing!

 

[warra48]

Before I went onto AG, I did about a dozen extract brews, with the addition of specialty grains. I used both Coopers and Morgans unhopped cans of extract, and found them to be fine. At that stage the biggest pot I had was 11 litres, and it worked just fine by boiling the specialty grains wort and some of the can extract.
Doing this allows you to work out your own style and hop preferences, and the specialty grains gave me a good grounding for my first AG brew.
I think the process produced better beers than just the K&K, although the use of liquid yeast may also have helped.
I certainly enjoyed drinking them.

 

[ibast]

Hello all, new to this Forum, all the way from the cold, wet US East Coast.

This past Sunday, for example, I made up a Cooper's Bavarian Lager. Took about 45 minutes, made a few modifications to the basic recipe, and I'm confident I'll have a decent beer in a few weeks. If I could have set aside the 4 to 6 hours needed to do an all-grain, I would have done that.

Welcome to the forum. I didn't know Cooper's were exporting kits to the states. I know what you mean about all grains and your lifestyle. I've got a couple of kids under 4 and there is just know way I could spare the best part of a day doing a brew.

 

[discoloop]

I'm paraphrasing a quote from Radical Brewing, which discusses using extract something like this:

Take your tin of extract and remove the label, noting first whether the contents are hopped or unhopped. There. You have an ingredient.

I tend to work off that philosophy. I always do 'extract' brews, but sometimes I save a little time by using a 'hopped' extract kit. To me, it's fairly irrelevant whether the extract is hopped or unhopped. I just adjust boil times and hop quantities accordingly.)

IMHO the two biggest things you can do to improve your extract beer are:
- Using good yeasts at appropriate temperatures
- Control the 'flavour' components of the beer yourself through later hop additions and speciality grains

 

[chimera]

If k&k is the affectionate name we give to the 1.7Kg cans with a 1kg of some combination of fermentable sugars thrown in, all kits are definitely not equal.
ESB 3kg tins come to mind - to me they're more an extract brew than a k&k, although they come as a kit.. so the waters are a bit muddy.

Never did many true extract brews, seemed to lean towards using a pre-hopped kit, usually a farmland lager cos they are cheap and readily available. Now.. moving past extract, anybody can mash 1kg of grain in their kitchen with a 6pack esky, a collander and a large pot, and you will definitely taste improved results using even 25% base malt.

 

[Parrothead]

Welcome to the forum. I didn't know Cooper's were exporting kits to the states. I know what you mean about all grains and your lifestyle. I've got a couple of kids under 4 and there is just know way I could spare the best part of a day doing a brew.

Thank you, sir, I'm happy to be here. I admit that I'm fascinated with your country and everything "Aussie". I really hope to visit some day.

My kids are 18, 15, and 8, so you can appreciate what I mean when I say that time is at a premium! If you have a couple under 4, I am sure that your head is spinning in all directions just trying to keep up with them, your job, your wife....not to mention brewing good beer! So, since the wife & kids come first, I'll "settle" for kit beers.

Yes, Coopers is widely available here in the US. In fact, up until about 2 or 3 years ago, Morgans and Black Rock were too. I do enjoy the Cooper's range, and I also liked the other two, but their US distributer doesn't carry them anymore. I wish I knew why. I can get them through Canada, though. I've made some good brews with Coopers, and once in a while I can get the real thing if I travel to the neighboring state of Maryland, my "Motherland". I've enjoyed their Stout, Sparkling Ale, and Pale Ale. Great stuff, compared to the megabrew crap in the US. Believe me, all of you guys "Down Under" who take shots at Coopers or your other larger breweries should count your blessings - try a Coors Light and you'll see what I mean! But, I've gotten off topic here, sorry!

 

[Canumbler]

Thank you, sir, I'm happy to be here. I admit that I'm fascinated with your country and everything "Aussie". I really hope to visit some day.

My kids are 18, 15, and 8, so you can appreciate what I mean when I say that time is at a premium! If you have a couple under 4, I am sure that your head is spinning in all directions just trying to keep up with them, your job, your wife....not to mention brewing good beer! So, since the wife & kids come first, I'll "settle" for kit beers.

Yes, Coopers is widely available here in the US. In fact, up until about 2 or 3 years ago, Morgans and Black Rock were too. I do enjoy the Cooper's range, and I also liked the other two, but their US distributer doesn't carry them anymore. I wish I knew why. I can get them through Canada, though. I've made some good brews with Coopers, and once in a while I can get the real thing if I travel to the neighboring state of Maryland, my "Motherland". I've enjoyed their Stout, Sparkling Ale, and Pale Ale. Great stuff, compared to the megabrew crap in the US. Believe me, all of you guys "Down Under" who take shots at Coopers or your other larger breweries should count your blessings - try a Coors Light and you'll see what I mean! But, I've gotten off topic here, sorry!

Coopers isn't really one of our larger breweries, they do quite well but they are not owned by either of the "big 2" which produce.. I'd guess at least 90% of beer sold in australia.

About the best that can be said of australian megaswill vs american megaswill is that the aussie stuff isn't light ;-)

 

[vicelore]

this thread is confusing me... as far as i knew it all beer baught , be it a tin of LME and another bag of additives ( kit ) , or using all DME and frexh hops.

are all classified as extract brewing ????


i take it the difference your talking about is ,

boiling the wort rather than just disolving a kit in the fementer ??

 

[ibast]

this thread is confusing me... as far as i knew it all beer baught , be it a tin of LME and another bag of additives ( kit ) , or using all DME and frexh hops.

are all classified as extract brewing ????


i take it the difference your talking about is ,

boiling the wort rather than just disolving a kit in the fementer ??

Kits are generally are just mix with water and add some "sugar".

There is a brewing style in between this and all grain, where you buy unhopped liquid extract or Dry malt and boil it up and add the the type of hops you like, when you like. You can go even further and do mini-mashes etc.

This is referred to as extract brewing. So whilst technically kits are a type of extract brewing, they are differentiated in brewing circles.

 

[vicelore]

Thanks ibast.

Thats what i thaught , It was quite confusing when i started as i made one kit and then was sold a extract brew for my second and treated it like a kit.. ( the LHBS didnt tell me any different) this made me confused.

Cheers

 

[brettprevans]

vicelore -

off topic.
It refers to where you get the majority of your fermentable liquid from.

From a purest/traditional point of view:

Kit & kilo - use a tin of pre hopped goo called wort. Then adding other fermentable ingredients (kilo of this kilo of that etc)
- the tin is usually 1.7kg and maybe another kilo of fewmrentables such as dex, maltdex, or malt extract.
- specialty grains can be used to enhance flavours as they dont need to be mashed. they can be steeped.

Toucan - purist speaking, 2 x tins of goo. NOT 2 x tins of malt extract.


Extract - uses pure liquid or dry malt extract as the base and majority of fermentables.
- specialty grains can be used to enhance flavours as they dont need to be mashed. they can be steeped.
- tins of goo have no place in a real extract brew
- DONT confuse a tin of coopers pale ale goo for a tin of coopers malt extract. very differant things.
- generally a normal heavy beer will use 3kg of malt extract as a base.

Partial - a mix between K&K/Extract and AG
- It comprises or part K&K or Extract (mos of the time extract) and some grains.
- a minimash of grains can be used to increase flavour and fermentables. It used when you dont have enough equipment/volume to do a full AG

AG - grain is used to make up the fermentable wort.
- strictly speaking no other fermentable adjunct can be used.

back on topic

As for whether extract brews are better than kits.... well probably. you can make good brews with either. at least with extract you tend to get fresher ingredients and so it tastes better. you do get a nice clean flavour. Then again you can make ***** beer using any method.

Dont beleive everything you hear about Kit twang. sometime its a made up thing that snobs recon they can taste when really what they can taste is old ingredients. You can get kit twang though. very common when people use coopers instructions and brew hot.

 

[vicelore]

thanks allot for that reply city. I wish someone told me that a while ago. but you need to learn a bit about all types before you can understand them .

If you dont mind me asking ( i know its a little off topic ) whats the difference between the Can of coopers pale ale goo and LME. is it mainly the addition of hops in the pale ale goo.

Cheers and sorry for the hijack Dravid.

 

[brettprevans]

goo is basicly (and anyone can correct me if im wrong) is wort concentrate. ie boiled down wort with isohop in it. So its the equiv of making an extract wort (malt extract and water) and boiling it down to a concentrate, then adding isohop. This was disussed somewhere else on AHB and I think someone correct a few technicalities of my very simple explaination, but generally thats what it is.

LME is essentially malt extract that hasnt been dried/dehydrated? I think its that way round rather than watered down dry malt extract. Cant remember. either way, so long as its fresh (use by date on can), its better than a tin of goo.

K&K can make good beer. Just add a few specialty grains (even if its just crystal and carapils), hops and good yeast and youve got a brew thats miles better than just a tin of goo and kit yeast (and better than most of the megaswill)

 

[boingk]

Right on! My first brew was waaaaaaay below average - Tooheys include a Special [Lager or Draught? Can't remember] kit and 1kg of liquid brewing sugar [maize extract, think its maltodextrin] with their fermenter setup so I used that. It was horrible - dark, flat, chewy and flavourless.

Then I thought about what my next brew would be. I found this site, and spoke to my homebrew shops owner. Ended up making a Dutch style lager [ie Heineken knock-off] with a good kit, some LDME and an addition of Tettnanger hops. Loved it!!!

First extract was a 'partial extract', using a Malt Shovel 11.5L 'can-only' kit and therefore having to make the rest of the mix up by doing a small extract batch to go with it. 20g Hallertau @ 40min, 10g Cascade @ 20min, 5g Cascade @ 10 min & flameout, and I was a happy man. Turned out beautifully, with excellent crisp hopping.

My first true extract was a Chilli Beer, with all sorts of hectic additions - notably 100g of chopped jalapenos at 30min! Anyway, it turned out well but aged badly long term.

Still havent got around to AG, but do use specialty grains when and where I can. Basically, you can make good beer with any method so long as you use good ingredients and procedure.

Cheers - boingk

 

[Fatgodzilla]

goo is basicly (and anyone can correct me if im wrong) is wort concentrate. ie boiled down wort with isohop in it. So its the equiv of making an extract wort (malt extract and water) and boiling it down to a concentrate, then adding isohop. This was disussed somewhere else on AHB and I think someone correct a few technicalities of my very simple explaination, but generally thats what it is.

Good explanation CM. Another difference between a kit and a can of extract is the kit might include ingredients other than the extract equivilent. The wort pre reduction can include stuff such as dextrenes (?) and even cane sugar to produce a "kit" suitable for a full brew. Therefore a 1.7kg kit may only have the equivilent of (say) 1.5 kg of extract. I've tried a few times to get a better answer about the actual contents of kits but with no success. But KISS - the can is not just malt extract and isohop essences. You can control your wort more by using 100% extract and implementing your own hopping regime.

 

[ibast]

LME is essentially malt extract that hasnt been dried/dehydrated? I think its that way round rather than watered down dry malt extract. Cant remember. either way, so long as its fresh (use by date on can), its better than a tin of goo.

It's extract that has been reduced to a paste. I think Cooper's make most of it in Aus. The brew shops buy it in drums and re-package it. One brew shop I went to said he didn't sell it because he thought it was of poor quality compared to the dry, but I can't see that as surely completely dehydrating it is likely to do more damage to the product.