Is Batch Size ?

[berazafi]

Just wondering what your beliefs is

 

[Stuster]

It's usually end of boil volume because this avoids confusion when comparing recipes. the volume lost to trub etc varies between brewers so the volume into the fermenter varies. i think if you look on the sites of promash and beersmith there'll be something there about this. i think it was jayse's post that got me on to this. certainly ups the brewery efficiency. :super:

Edit: at least according to Promash. From here

Note that the BATCH SIZE in a recipe should be set to the final volume in the kettle, AFTER the boil, *not* what you may end up with in the fermenter.

By making the batch size the exact same size as what you end up with in the fermenter, you are assuming you have zero wort losses in the transfer. This could be, but is not the case with most. If in fact you have wort losses, ProMash is trying to add those to the batch size for the initial sugar content, which is actually incorrect because what you have in the kettle will be more than what you end up with in the fermenter, if you have any wort losses at all.

Following me? If you loose 1/2 a gallon in wort losses when transferring to the kettle, and end up with 5.5 gallons in the fermenter, you should be formulating your recipes for a 6 gallon batch size (5.5 gal + 0.5 gal).

 

[Adamt]

Batch Size = Amount bottled - Amount drunk by friends - Amount thrown out because extract beer tastes like feet.

 

[jayse]

You make a batch of wort not a batch of wort plus losses. A batch of wort is how much wort you make not how much of it you donate to charity, not how much your grand father drinks, not how much you spill on a big nite, not how much you eventually end up with after the tap breaks and you lose half on the floor, not how much you get in the fermentor after the dog has drunk some of it. Its how much wort you have made regardless of wether you loose none of it or a 1/3 of it on the way to the fermentor.

You need to work your calcs out by how much wort you make not how much wort ends up in you fermentor or how much beer goes down your gullet and therefore batch size needs to be end of boil size unless the batch size accounts for losses automatically which neither beersmith or promash do. Look at it from a manual calculation for gravity perspective you times grain weight by extract potential divided by volume. The volume you use is the end of boil volume, software works the same the loss calculators are stand alone calculators the recipe itself doesn't automatically calculate losses. If you stop and think for two seconds it makes sense, that way you can swap a recipe without having to give the person your equipment specs and losses, that plus another severall reasons why it makes sense it works this way.

Damn this arguement to hell h34r:
If anyone disagrees it really won't phase me if they continue to use software with batch size set to fermentor volume...I laugh at you :lol:



Alcohol fueled brewtality. h34r:
Jayse

 

[AndrewQLD]

You make a batch of wort not a batch of wort plus losses. A batch of wort is how much wort you make not how much of it you donate to charity, not how much your grand father drinks, not how much you spill on a big nite, not how much you eventually end up with after the tap breaks and you lose half on the floor, not how much you get in the fermentor after the dog has drunk some of it. Its how much wort you have made regardless of wether you loose none of it or a 1/3 of it on the way to the fermentor.

You need to work your calcs out by how much wort you make not how much wort ends up in you fermentor or how much beer goes down your gullet and therefore batch size needs to be end of boil size unless the batch size accounts for losses automatically which neither beersmith or promash do. Look at it from a manual calculation for gravity perspective you times grain weight by extract potential divided by volume. The volume you use is the end of boil volume, software works the same the loss calculators are stand alone calculators the recipe itself doesn't automatically calculate losses. If you stop and think for two seconds it makes sense, that way you can swap a recipe without having to give the person your equipment specs and losses, that plus another severall reasons why it makes sense it works this way.

Damn this arguement to hell h34r:
If anyone disagrees it really won't phase me if they continue to use software with batch size set to fermentor volume...I laugh at you :lol:



Alcohol fueled brewtality. h34r:
Jayse

Jayse says it very well, the only efficiency you need to worry about and is of any real use in brewing is the MASH EFFICIENCY, or Efficiency into boiler pre or post boil, that tells you accurately how well you are extracting the good stuff from the grains.
Efficiency into fermenter is your overall system efficiency or equipement eff. and really only tells you how effectively you get your wort from the boiler to the fermenter. Losses to the fermenter can happen any number of ways including tipping over the fermenter and losing 5 lt, if you calculated that then you would only have 60% eff instead of 70% so why bother.
Beersmith and Promash look at how well you extract the sugars from the grains, and fermenter losses are really only a side issue they have tried to cater for.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Screwtop]

It annoys me now too, mostly because I hadn't figured it out for myself, it all makes pefect sence, have been tooing and froing with Promash and Beersmith and Beertools, plugging in the same recipes and getting differing results. Found it really frustrating that different applications gave differing results using simple math calcs, the formula should be the same obviously. Glad you cleared this up Jayse.

By the way, using Promash I have to use 50% of the mash tun thermal mass entered into Beersmith to arrive at the same strike water temp.