Invert sugar in a Milk Stout

[Jack of all biers]

I've just made up 500gm of invert candy syrup with added black strap molases with great liquorice/carmel/candy flavours and want to use it in a Milk Stout I'm planning to brew for the old man.

The recipe I was planning to use (before making the invert syrup) was from Graham Wheelers "Brew Classic European Beers At Home" pg. 111 "Mackeson Stout"

The original recipe is;

25L OG 1042 (based on 80% mash efficiency)

Pale malt 3070 gm
Chocolate malt 510 gm
Black malt 135 gm
Lactose 630 gm

IBU 26
Target hops 30 gm (start of boil)

Mash at 67C for 90 mins. Boil 90 mins, add lactose in last 30 mins

Racking gravity: 1020 ABV: 3%


I'd like to add my 500 gm invert sugars, but I don't really want to increase alcohol or sweetness (630 gm lactose seems alot to me). Any opinions on what should be taken out to compensate for the 500 gm sugars? I'm thinking reducing the Lactose to 350 gm and reducing the pale malt to 2000 gm. I've not made the above recipe, but my parents have fond memories of Mackeson's so want to reproduce something similar or better.

Thoughts.

 

[wynnum1]

invert sugar is sugar if wanting to keep alcohol % the same need to change mash to have more unfermentable content from the malt if add water will drop alcohol percent but dilute flavor.
Yeast type could also change alcohol % if less attenuation.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Yes, understood. Thanks.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Sorry, Damn quick using mobile phone. I was thinking dropping a kilo of base malt should drop 1010 from the oh, which would be replaced by approx 1008 increase from the 500 gm invert sugar. Flavour is exactly what I after, but also balance. Thare why I was thinking of dropping some of the lactose. To make up for some extra sweetness from the invert no. 3 (ish) caramels etc. If I raised the mash temp, I would get more mouth feel, so would probably need to reduce the lactose some more. I will be using wyeast 1968 London ESB, as I have some healthy stuff from last brew, which attentuated to 71%. I really want the flavours from the invert, but realise that by changing the recipe I also Change the flavour balance and seek the forums thoughts as to the best bet on striking the balance without making it to sweet or drying out what's meant ti be a full/sweet beer.

 

[Bribie G]

Mash at 71

 

[MHB]

If you want to taste the Syrup, I would probably drop most of the black and a fair fraction of the chocolate, naturally it stops being a stout, In fact to taste the sugar I think something in the Best-ESB range might be better than a stout.
There are plenty of good ones in the book (one of my favourite recipe books) even a few with sugar additions that could be subbed pretty easily.
Mark

 

[Jack of all biers]

Thanks Bribie and Mark. I am still keen to get the molasses/raw sugar caramel/liquorice flavours into this stout and I want it to remain a stout. I think I'll take Bribie's advice and up the mash to 71C, but do you mean leave the original recipe as it is and mash at 71C or do you agree I should reduce the ale malt by 1Kg, reduce the lactose to 350gm and mash at 71C?

 

[Jack of all biers]

Ok this Mackeson Stout clone (with a twist of Black invert syrup) was brewed today with a minor adjustment to the original recipe to get the invert syrup in.

25L recipe
Ale malt 2500 gm
Choc malt 500 gm
Black malt 100 gm
Lactose 500 gm
Black Invert syrup 500 gm

Grains mashed with aiming temp 71C (forgot to pre-heat the mashtun so under shot at 67C, but back up to 71C within 10 mins)
Mash pH: 5.33 (@ room temp, 2 point calibrated, accurate to 0.01)
Efficiency: 84%
Pre-boil gravity: 1027
Pre-boil volume: 29L

42.5 gm Hallertau Pacific 6.1% whole flowers @ 90 min boil (should be Target hops, but I have alot of Hallertau to get through)

Lactose and invert added to kettle in last 15 minutes.

Post boil pH: 5.14
Post boil volume 24.5 L
OG: 1048

Wyeast 1968 London ESB yeast from 2L starter added for fermentation.

So other than the original recipe being OG 1042 (which if I wanted to get up to 25L by diluting I probably could have come close to), I think it will be a similar beer to the original recipe. Here's hoping the subtle invert flavours come through. Once it's brewed, conditioned and bottled, I'll update as to whether or not the liquorice/caramel flavours came through in the final beer.

 

[Jack of all biers]

So the belated update. After 4 months conditioning in a cube, this was bottled at the beginning of September and is nearly all gone. I think it is a good recipe that made a good beer, although I'll admit the flavours from the home made invert sugar were barely detectable other than a subtle note or two. At 3.5% for a stout it is a good quaffing beer that fills you up after two which makes it great when you don't want that alcohol buzz. For a stout it's slightly watered down, but still has the full stout flavours. I'd definitely brew this one again, but as for using invert sugar in it.... Well experiment done, but probably not worth the effort again as pointed out by Mark above.