Infected Wort Before Pitching Yeast

[bjl]

Hi all,

I made an AG pils on Sat and had an older pack of Wyeast yeast. I put the wort into a fermenter first thing Sunday morning as I normally do and air locked it but the yeast still hadn't swelled the pack. The wyeast pack swelled today and I went to aerate the wort but it smelled terrible and had all kinds of fungus growing on it. It is obviously infected.

Is this normal for an infection to set in even though everything was thoroughly sanitised and sealed?

Also, can I still use the yeast if I refrigerate it and use it to make a starter or will it now be no good also?

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[cubbie]

You most certainly can use the yeast if you just put it in the fridge. When ready pull it out, let it warm up and either pitch or make a starter.


"Is this normal for an infection to set in even though everything was thoroughly sanitised and sealed?" No, so I guess it was not thoroughly sanitised and sealed.

 

[raven19]

Its a shame about the wort. Very unluky if its infected IMO. However, it only takes one nasty in the air to start things going bad, especially if there is no yeast for them to compete against. Did you no chill, or otherwise?

Yes, smack pack will be fine for a while. Sometimes they can take a few days to expand - it wont explode though. Personally, I would be inclined to capture some into test tubes for culturing, and if you want you could make a bigger starter from your smackpack and have it ready to pitch into your next batch of wort.

Fingers crossed the next batch goes well.

Make sure you clean the offending fermenter really well.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Use the no chill / cube method - it'll save you in the event that future yeast starters aren't ready

By allowing you to store the wort until you are ready to pitch - be it days or even months

Detail here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=56

Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

It might not be the fermenter's fault (although the fermenter will now need to be thoroughly nuked). How do you transfer the wort from the kettle to the fermenter, and how do you chill it?

I use an urn and recently got a slight infection that set in before the yeast could get going. What I did was to no-chill in the urn believing that everything in the urn would have to be perfectly sterile as it had been boiled for an hour and a half. The yeast took two days to get going, and in the meantime some other bug got a start.

I drank most of the brew but it had a bit of a cabbage taste that just got worse and wors, and ended up chucking the last third of it.
Now I do a vigorous yeast starter IN ADVANCE for every brew so it gets a good inoculation on pitching.

However before the next brew, as a precaution I took the urn tap apart and to my horror there were all sorts of green hoppy slimy things and crap. So I must have had a dirty tap and despite the boiling, there were little nooks in the inside of the tap not exposed to the full boil where bugs could lurk. As previous poster said you don't need many nasties to cause an infection.

Best to check your transfer pipes, tubes, taps, plate chillers or whatever you use.

I now religiously take the tap apart and get it spotless after every brew now.

 

[bjl]

Thanks for the input everyone.

I crash chill with a copper coil to about 35deg and cover it with a clean towel, let it sit overnight to drop to about 20deg before running into a fermentor and pitching the yeast. I guess this gives it plenty of time for nasties to get in! I then run it straight out of the boiler into the fermentor, about a half metre drop to aerate it. I've done this over a dozen times with no problems. The only thing differnt this time around is that it sat in the fermentor for 4 days without yeast. I normally pitch the yeast straight away but obviously couldn't this time around.

As for sanitising, I had a couple of infections in my K&K days and are now totally anal when it comes to sanitizing. All taps are disassebled and cleaned, all threads soaked with pink stain, hot water and then sanitizer, all seals soaked in boiling water etc etc.

Most likely result I'd say is something got in overnight, time to change my routine. May go the no chill method.

Bad news, 130g of Saaz down the drain :angry: , good news, yeast is re-usable

I'll put it down to experience

Thanks again everyone for your input.

 

[cubbie]

bjl

IMO you are just asking for trouble by leaving the wort in the kettle over night. I would be inclined to pre-chill the water going through your immersion chiller or transfer to your fermenter and pitch the yeast straight away. By the time the yeast gets into it's anaerobic phase I would have expected to wort to have done a bit further chilling.

I would also expect the wort to be below 35 after chilling (unless your tap water comes out hot!)

I often do a combination of both of the above. I use my chiller to take out most of the heat and then I attach a small pump (eg pond pump) and recirculate some iced water. I often pitch at 22-24 and the last few degrees come off in the fermenting fridge before my yeast kicks into action.

I would certainly look into no-chill if you can't be sure on when you will be able to pitch your yeast.

 

[Pollux]

I use an urn and recently got a slight infection that set in before the yeast could get going. What I did was to no-chill in the urn believing that everything in the urn would have to be perfectly sterile as it had been boiled for an hour and a half. The yeast took two days to get going, and in the meantime some other bug got a start.

That's not what I wanted to hear mate..... I was planning on following your lead of kettle NC within the Urn overnight and pitching in the morning...

How did your first ever BIAB AG hold up? If it's okay I might be right provided I strip the tap and clean it before and after every brewday...


I might have to go buy myself some jerries, just to be safe.

 

[Bribie G]

4 days OUCH
Yes, nowadays I always get a good starter foaming away in good time. I started off with K&K and would just sprinkle in the Coopers or Morgans yeast and by next morning bloop bloop bloop. When I migrated to partials then AG and got onto some of the more finicky and temperamental yeasts like smack packs I learned the hard way that yeasts aint yeasts and like you I suffered the agony of suspense as nothing has happened after twelve hours... nothing has happened after twenty four hours....

Also I'm not a hundred percent impressed with Wyeast smack packs. I got a UK Bitter 1769 that was already quite puffy when it arrived, couldn't feel the widget and literally opened it, squished the widget manually while wearing sanitised latex gloves and poured the rather miserable brown stream into the brew. It fermented out sluggishly, produced a drinkable beer but when I tried to revive a sample the other day it was two days in the starter bottle and no activity, dead as a doornail. Ended up using some vigorous US-05 I had on hand, no probs.

I've got a glass jar of US-05 frothing up nicely at the moment for latest brew and will pitch tonight, should be roaring away by the morning.

 

[Bribie G]

That's not what I wanted to hear mate..... I was planning on following your lead of kettle NC within the Urn overnight and pitching in the morning...

How did your first ever BIAB AG hold up? If it's okay I might be right provided I strip the tap and clean it before and after every brewday...


I might have to go buy myself some jerries, just to be safe.

Me again :lol:

Don't even think about it.

• I found that the urn takes forever to cool down, it was still hot as hell the next morning, I mean like a good cup of coffee. If you do your geometry a Bunnings Jerry has a far better surface to mass ratio and my most recent jerry was almost at ambient by the next lunchtime after an evening boil, put in fridge and it was ready to pitch that evening, 24 hours from boil to pitch.
• Because of the long cool down if you do have any nasties lurking in the tap or even in the SIGHT TUBE (now there's something to think about) they have a day or so to start breeding up.

Well it was a good idea at the time
I'm onto my seventh BIAB (a braggott is boiling away at the moment, or the malt part of it..) and brew no. 4, a Yorkshire Bitter, took best beer in comp at the BABBs Feb meeting. It was just a mini comp and really just a bit of fun within the club , but go BIAB :super:

 

[schooey]

Is this normal for an infection to set in even though everything was thoroughly sanitised and sealed?

As mentioned earlier, it's not about how clean sanitised your fermenter is. If your wort was left exposed to the open atmosphere, even only for a short time, it may have been exposed to wild airborne yeasts. By not pitching a large amount of healthy yeast that you want, the wild yeasts have had time to grow and multiply, and your beer is infected. By pitching the yeast you want as early as you can, you don't give these wild yeasts a chance to take off

 

[Pollux]

Well, on that note, I shall be off to Bunnings next weekend....

Thank mate.

 

[Fatgodzilla]

However before the next brew, as a precaution I took the urn tap apart and to my horror there were all sorts of green hoppy slimy things and crap. So I must have had a dirty tap and despite the boiling, there were little nooks in the inside of the tap not exposed to the full boil where bugs could lurk...

...I now religiously take the tap apart and get it spotless after every brew now.

Welcome to MY world. Lost 5 brews pre xmas before finding this my problem. Got the idea from Tony who lost 1,000l (or something like that ).

Truth is, never, never trust that she'll be right !

back to bjl's error - is that 5 days in a fermenter without pitching ? Asking for trouble man !

 

[cubbie]

back to bjl's error - is that 5 days in a fermenter without pitching ? Asking for trouble man !

I crap myself if I have not got down to a reasonable pitching temp and have to head out, come home 4-5 hours later and pitch the yeast with my fingers crossed.

 

[bjl]

Thanks again everyone, these forums are great.

BTW, I'll definately be pitching the yeast asap in the future!

 

[technocat]

Infection always seem to start after the boil and into the fermenter. Pretty obvious statement you say, but I learnt the hard way and have tipped a few brews out. Prior to filling a fermenter I strip every thing out, Tap and all seals, grommets, rubber seal in lid and pay particular attention to tap outlet and thread, also lid and airlock not to mentiion the inside of the fermenter. Woolies homebrand nappy treatment plus at a tad over 3 bucks a kilo is a good antibacterial cleaner and surfacant and I clean every part individually. After a thorough rinse I soak every thing in a solution of brewshield sanitiser for an hour which is a no rinse, then drain and put every thing back together ready for cool wort. I know you guys have read this a hundred times before but a bit of effort in fermenter prep saves a lot of grief later. And touch wood I haven't had a bad batch in yonks.
As an observation sprinkling dry yeast on wort such as Fermentis products seem to kick in a lot faster than Wyeast and I also note they tell you to spray sanitise the pouch before opening, it may be a precaution worth taking.

Cheers

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If you are going to chill in the kettle (I wont even talk about no-chilling in the kettle, I don't like it and shall pretend it does not exist) - you can get away with a bit less than stripping down the tap every time.

The tap hides gunk - thats unfortunately true - but if you get the gunk to boiling temps - it will be dead and sterile gunk. So while your kettle is still boiling, get a 2L jug, open up the tap and recirculate boiling wort through that thing for a few minutes. Opening and closing the tap regularly to get into the corners. Then close the tap, squirt a goodly amount of no-rinse sanitiser into the "out" side, repeat before yo shove on a hose - and you will be good to go.

Goo in the tap is only a real issue if you are running cool wort through it because you have chilled it in the kettle - hot wort into a cube, a CF or plate chiller and you shouldn't have any issue, although it never hurts to be over cautious.

On the cold end... sanitise everything, every teeny tiny thing that even might come into contact with your beer. I spray sanitiser on the scissors that I use to open the yeast packet with and the bench I sit them on. Everything is wet with sanitiser, till I put wort or beer onto it.

 

[onescooter]

One thing thing that I learnt the hard way is to be patient. If you're not completely ready to brew from start to finish, better to put it off for another time. It sucks to pour your beer down the drain because you wanted to have a beer finished by a certain time. Now you have no beer at all and your down X amount of dollars and X amount of time. Been there to many times, that I should have learnt a long time before I did.
I like your attitude that you will learn from your mistakes. I reckon stick with the Liquid yeasts. Start them a bit earlier if they are a bit dodgy, better to pitch them a few days after they have swelled than before. Could also be handy to keep some dry yeast handy if you don't have the time.
Cheers
Scott.

 

[cooperplace]

I agree with Scott: always have your yeast ready to go before you start boiling etc., and have some dried yeast on hand in case of emergencies. Better to use some dried yeast than chuck everything out.

BTW: I usually use Windsor dried, and I rehydrate acc. to Lalvin directions, except that I don't chuck the rehydrated yeast straight into the wort as that gives the yeast a huge osmotic shock, from which it takes about 15 hrs to recover. Instead I add an equal vol. of wort to the yeast suspended in water, and after 30' do the same again, then I pitch. My ferments practically catch fire they go so fast, even at 12C. Never a stuck fermentation, never an infection (well, hardly ever).

In any case: good luck! Enjoy your beer!

Peter.

 

[schooey]

:lol: Sorry dude, but 15 posts in 5 and a quarter years? Thats less than 3 posts per year. I'm gonna take your advice for gospel cos it seems you don't waste too many posting opportunities...