Incomplete Primary Fermentation

[brewer boy]

Hi all,
I'm just getting into to home brewing and have just got my second brew underway. I have very much enjoyed reading these forums as I was getting started and received lots of great advice. My first brew was a german lager which turned out very nicely, however I have run into a problem with my second batch.
I'm making a Amber Ale with added grain, malt and hops.
It has been 6 days since I pitched the yeast and sealed the carboy. The airlock bubbled well for the first couple of days and there is a build up of foam at the top of the carboy, but it now appears to have stopped. It is at a fairly stable temperature of 24 degrees C.

I have been taking S.G readings. The original reading wa 1040, but the last couple of days the readings have remained at 1020. According to the kit the F.G should be around 1008.
I have been tasting the samples and they do taste ok, but but the SG doesn't seem to be changing, there are no more bubbles coming through the airlock.
I know that a stable S.G over a couple of days usually signifies that it is time to bottle, but I don't really feel as though it has finished fermenting yet.

I am a little concerned that 1.020 is still a bit high (in terms of the sugar level). Should I wait to see if it drops any lower before I bottle?
Is this a lost cause, or is there a way to finish this fermentation and save it? Is it worth pitching some more yeast? Ot perhaps just mixing it up a bit?
The only other thing I can think of is that for the first couple of hours there wa sa tiny leak in the airlock, but that was fixed very quickly by reinforcing it with some blu-tac and then it was fine. Could this have affected it?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[teeesoobes10]

Brewer Boy, I'd suggest you leave it go for a few days longer yet. I asked a similar question here a while back and should've done a search first, as this sorta query is one asked more often than most. My mistake!

Best and most obvious way to find out if it's still ticking away is to open her up, stick your nose in it and take a big whiff. If you get a good obvious prickle of CO2 up your hooter...you're still in business. So continue to let it do its thing.

Plus it doesn't hurt to let the yeast tidy up/attenuate properly and for any 'solids' to take time to settle out. It won't hurt your beer any to sit there for a bit longer before you bottle. Trust me...I'm an idiot. If you're not real keen on that idea, rack it off the bottoms/dead yeast/lees/whatever into a secondary fermenter and let it finish in that. Also a good time to throw in any dry hopping hops too.

p.s. - if it's a Muntons kit you are using I have been told by other AHB'ers (Manticle? from memory) that most of their kits finish round 1020-ish anyhow, and again from obs it's true to be the case.

Good luck mate and like any advice given on here - it's only one amateur homebrewers advice to another.

 

[bignath]

Best and most obvious way to find out if it's still ticking away is to open her up, stick your nose in it and take a big whiff. If you get a good obvious prickle of CO2 up your hooter...you're still in business. So continue to let it do its thing.

WHAT?

I've never heard of that one.....

What happens if the CO2 you're putting up your nose is just the "blanket" of CO2?

It wouldn't have to be actively fermenting to still be giving off CO2..

It could very easily be CO2 coming out of solution...

My gut reaction tells me that this is really bad advise.
I wouldn't be opening my fermenter at anytime unless:

1 I'm dry hopping my primary fermenter.
2 I'm racking my primary to a secondary vessel.
3 I'm about to transfer to a bulk prime vessel.
4 I'm about to transfer it to a keg.

I know you said your airlock is not bubbling anymore, but some things to keep in mind:

1 Your beer can still be fermenting without making your airlock bubble.
2 Your airlock can still be bubbling when your beer is not fermenting any more.

The best advise i can give is give it more time.

The BEST WAY is to trust your hydrometer. Keep taking readings as it may fire up again. 1.020 definitely seems way too high to be finished if it started at 1.040

Definitely don't go putting your nose in it....That's just asking for trouble i reckon...

Cheers,

Bignath

 

[teeesoobes10]

WHAT?

I've never heard of that one.....

What happens if the CO2 you're putting up your nose is just the "blanket" of CO2?

It wouldn't have to be actively fermenting to still be giving off CO2..

It could very easily be CO2 coming out of solution...

My gut reaction tells me that this is really bad advise.
I wouldn't be opening my fermenter at anytime unless:

1 I'm dry hopping my primary fermenter.
2 I'm racking my primary to a secondary vessel.
3 I'm about to transfer to a bulk prime vessel.
4 I'm about to transfer it to a keg.

I know you said your airlock is not bubbling anymore, but some things to keep in mind:

1 Your beer can still be fermenting without making your airlock bubble.
2 Your airlock can still be bubbling when your beer is not fermenting any more.

The best advise i can give is give it more time.

The BEST WAY is to trust your hydrometer. Keep taking readings as it may fire up again. 1.020 definitely seems way too high to be finished if it started at 1.040

Definitely don't go putting your nose in it....That's just asking for trouble i reckon...

Cheers,

Bignath

Thanks Big Nath... as I said: "Let it continue to do its thing." As in: wether it may be fermenting or not it will still be undergoing the process. Leave it go for a bit longer to be completely sure. If I am wrong, well hey my apologies. As for sticking your nose in an open fermenter, some of these blokes would do well to go and work in a winery at vintage time. Lots of open fermenters there. Unless you are taking a shit in your fermenter or have some chronic form of leprosy having a sniff hasn't buggered any of my brews thus far.

So Brewer Boy welcome to AHB, two fellas with differing opinions, not making things any clearer for you. Sorry mate, only giving my own personal experience and I'm no mash master, obviously.

 

[bignath]

teeesoobes,

i have no issue with the majority of your advice in that post.

Your explanation in your reply to my post indicates to me that you know enough of what you're talking about.

Having said that, the entire post from me was regarding your comment on "the best and most obvious way"....

As soon as you state something like that, people will take it very literally and i don't think you need to be a "mash master" to agree that regular use of his hydrometer is "the best and most obvious way".

I stand by my suggestion that inviting a new brewer who is on his second batch to blindingly open up his fermenter and have a smell for CO2 is not the best advice anybody could give.

 

[healz]

I've hit a similar snag on a Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager brew I've got going, OG was 1050 and has stalled at 1020 for the last 2 days. I really don't want to have to chuck this out, so any tips on getting it going again would be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Silo Ted]

I've hit a similar snag on a Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager brew I've got going, OG was 1050 and has stalled at 1020 for the last 2 days. I really don't want to have to chuck this out, so any tips on getting it going again would be greatly appreciated!!!

teeesoobes can tell you what not to do.

Unless you are taking a shit in your fermenter or have some chronic form of leprosy

 

[Boondy]

Most times when things don't seem to be happening right, I just leave my brew undisturbed for a few more days and things generally work out ok.
Generally the worst that seems to happen for me is that I get a clearer end product from the extra few days.
Looking at other peoples posts, this seems to be fairly common practice.
The obligatory small print - I'm an 'out of practice' brewer returning to activity, so really rusty, and I do tend to simplify things....... ^_^

 

[teeesoobes10]

teeesoobes,

i have no issue with the majority of your advice in that post.

Your explanation in your reply to my post indicates to me that you know enough of what you're talking about.

Having said that, the entire post from me was regarding your comment on "the best and most obvious way"....

As soon as you state something like that, people will take it very literally and i don't think you need to be a "mash master" to agree that regular use of his hydrometer is "the best and most obvious way".

I stand by my suggestion that inviting a new brewer who is on his second batch to blindingly open up his fermenter and have a smell for CO2 is not the best advice anybody could give.

Fair call. I will agree with you there that you must ALWAYS use the hydrometer readings to determine exactly when the brew is done. I was merely suggesting my own quick and thus far practical method of having a sniff of it too. I do both and haven't had any problems. In hindsight rather than using the phrase "the best and most obvious way" I should've said something along the lines of "my own personal method of checking initially..." but there you go...

The gist of it is: Play it safe brewer boy - don't open the lid of your fermenter, trust your hydro, and let patience prevail. Good luck, hope it turns out a beaut.

 

[brewer boy]

Hey all,
thanks so much for all of the advice so far.
I did get to a beginners course before I started this and they strongly recommended to never open the lid for risk of bacteria getting in. Even if i did this i don't think i really have enough experience to know what it is i would be looking (smelling) for.
I agree with the advice to trust the hydrometer. However, its now been about 5 days and there hydrometer reading has not changed at all. Still stuck at 1.020. Very frustrating, i'm convinced that this is not going to get any further without doing something about it.
From what I understand it shold only take about 10-12 days in total to drop to the appropriate F.G.

what would be the likely result of throwing in another batch of yeast to try and kick-start it again?
I'm almost ready to walk away from this one... I want a new brew before the feestive season begins and i'm running short on time!

Thanks again,

 

[manticle]

"Never' open the lid is a bit of a blanket statement. Minimise opening lids and do it only when necessary - it is generally necessary for top cropping, adding finings and dry hopping and fermenting beer will be reasonably microbe resistant if you are clean and sanitary about how and what you do.

Read the article on "My beer is 1022. Can I bottle it?" for tips and tricks on how to rescue a stuck ferment (and see if it really is stuck).

Wiki articles section BTW

 

[Scruffy]

Just a thought... bung some more yeast in there... Via the lid (far easier...). In fact; open the lid, scoop some out with a clean vessel - cover and give it a bit of a shake to aerate, and sprinkle your yeast on there (i'm guessing it's dry yeast), wait 24 hours or so for some activity... you can cover it with Glad Wrap if you like, or let the flies at it... If it kicks off, bung it back in your fermenter...
Was it just the kit, or did you add any extras?

 

[healz]

teeesoobes can tell you what not to do.

I'm pretty good at the what not to do already thanks . The "My beer is 1022. Can I bottle it?" article was most helpful though, cheers for pointing that out Manticle!!

 

[Lecterfan]

I've hit a similar snag on a Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager brew I've got going, OG was 1050 and has stalled at 1020 for the last 2 days. I really don't want to have to chuck this out, so any tips on getting it going again would be greatly appreciated!!!

Don't throw it out dude!!! Even if it IS done and doesn't get any lower than 1.020, from a 1.050 start you should still have a decent mid strength lager. I haven't done a Morgans Blue Mountains for a couple of years but I thought they were really nice, an FG of 1.014 or 1.016 wouldn't be surprising, so if you leave it for a while and rack to a secondary (if possible), you will probably drop another few points due to the denser material often accumualting around the tap where you draw the sample from.

Worry about flavour/balance and forget about alcohol content...once you can do the former then you can focus on the latter.

Good luck, and please stop threatening to throw out perfectly good beer...I just got off the treadmill and my heart rate is elevated enough without reading that and sending me to the emergency room!!! :lol:

 

[ekul]

When i was doing extracts this used to happen to me all the time.
Sometimes it wouldn't budge. To find out if it won't budge i'd do the following test. As scruffy said. Get a little out, say a beer bottles worth, and give it a good shake then leave it somewhere warm for a few days, doesn't matter if it gets hot as you're not going to be drinking it anyway. Test the gravity after a few days and if its the same then the brew is probably finished. If it dropped then you need to get that yeast started again.

The things that you can try are

1. swirl the wort by gently rocking side to side, back and forth. Gentle is the word here though because if you splash it you may get oxidised wort which won't taste nice.

2. Bring the temp up to 20-22C for a few days. My fermenter sometimes got real cold in the night, going down to 14C, which caused the yeast to sleep and then not wake up again. So the higher temp can remind them that its passed noon and they've slept in for work.

3. Give it a stir. This was always my last resort as its risky. I'd have a shower first (probably unnecessary) and then take the fermenter into a clean room without any draughts. I'd have my plastic spoon sanitised with no rinse and give the fermenter a spray with my sanitiser as well. Take the lid off and give a gentle stir. You're trying to get the yeast back into suspension so scrape the yeast off the bottom and and kind of mix it upwards. Be really careful not to splash as this will oxidise the wort. If this didn't work then i'd bottle it and hope for the best, usually in plastic. Usually stirring works though if its going to ferment out.
I never got an infection doing this as i was ocd careful with sanitation. If you be sanitary it will be fine.

4. Use a different yeast next time. I found that nottingham didn't stall on me as much and if it did it was easy to get going again with a stir. If it did stall though i alsmost always had to stir it as it sets really hard on the bottom.


The other thing that i found was that extract brews can finish a little higher. I regularly used to get beers finsh at 1016 without exploding, or being overcarbonated.

 

[brewer boy]

The "My beer is 1022. Can I bottle it?" article was most helpful though, cheers for pointing that out Manticle!!

I second that!

I'm convinced that the fermentation will start up again. I gave it a light swirl yesterday and still nothing so I had a chat to the local home brew shop today and here is what was suggested.

1. Bottle it, without adding carbonation drops. Given that it is an english ale they are often a low carbonated beer anyway. If there are still fermentable in there, by not adding carbonation drops greatly reduces the risk of exploding bottles and you have still got yourself a very drinkable beer.

2. Add 250g of dextrose. Dissolve it in a small amount of hot water then throw it in and hope that it gets the yeast active again. Give it a few days and take additional readings to see if fermentation has begun again. This will also mean that an accurate alcohol content cannot be taken by using S.G and F.G readings.

I think i will add the dextrose tonight and give it a few more days before bottling it without the carbonation drops.
Any strong disapproval to this strategy?



Thanks again for the very helpful discussion!

 

[felten]

The yeast may ferment out the simple sugars, but that doesn't mean they will drop the gravity anymore than what it is now. It can't hurt, it just might not do what you want it to do.

 

[np1962]

I second that!

I'm convinced that the fermentation will start up again. I gave it a light swirl yesterday and still nothing so I had a chat to the local home brew shop today and here is what was suggested.

1. Bottle it, without adding carbonation drops. Given that it is an english ale they are often a low carbonated beer anyway. If there are still fermentable in there, by not adding carbonation drops greatly reduces the risk of exploding bottles and you have still got yourself a very drinkable beer.

2. Add 250g of dextrose. Dissolve it in a small amount of hot water then throw it in and hope that it gets the yeast active again. Give it a few days and take additional readings to see if fermentation has begun again. This will also mean that an accurate alcohol content cannot be taken by using S.G and F.G readings.

I think i will add the dextrose tonight and give it a few more days before bottling it without the carbonation drops.
Any strong disapproval to this strategy?



Thanks again for the very helpful discussion!

I wouldn't be doing either of these things.
I would be trying to get the yeast up into suspension again, you have tried swirling I see. Sanitise a big spoon and give it a good stir up, avoid splashing though.
If you had a few more brews under your belt I would of suggested racking to another fermenter or pitching an active yeast starter.

For future brews I suggest you aerate the wort really well before pitching the yeast.
Brew into fermenter, lid on, and rock like crazy for about 5 minutes splashing as much as you can.
One of the main reasons for a 'stuck' ferment is lack of oxygenation needed by the yeast at the start of the ferment.

Nige

 

[stux]

Read the article on "My beer is 1022. Can I bottle it?" for tips and tricks on how to rescue a stuck ferment (and see if it really is stuck).

Wiki articles section BTW

Awesome article :0

Here's the link http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...showarticle=130