If You Owned A Brewpub

[DJR]

save on the excise tax if you serve from vessels 100L or greater.

48L in fact, unless the tax law has changed. This was all due to the "fair shout" or whatever it was called, where due to the GST the cost of draft beer increased by more than the Lying Rodent said it would.

Hmm... i reckon it's a hard slog in Aus if you really want to do it, there is a few around, you'd do well to study the model and how they have managed to be successful.

Most you'll find still serve the "standard" pale, bland lager as something has to pay the rent - which i reckon gives you a tap share of anywhere from 20 to 80% depending on the number of taps.

Avoid the straight APA route i reckon as it's a sign of little creativity - sure people including myself love em but we don't need 1000 brewpubs in 10 years time all just doing their own version of an APA. Stay away from that and I reckon creative choices will have to follow. Anything on the pale/bland spectrum is going to be pretty same-same with the great majority of pale lagers sold in the world, however a chance to shine through something else. A kolsch, pale rauchbier (go easy on the smoked malt), tripel, belgian pale ale, decent UK pale ale, etc, all still in the pale spectrum but different enough to have people trying OTHER taps. But not that you need to educate people - some people just refuse to be educated (marketing and branding of beer is a very powerful thing here), so that is what the "normal" VB/Spew/Black/Old taps are for.

It's a shame though that I reckon to establish something that is viable means you still have to sidle up to the big mega's... if you could get away without em (maybe have them and slowly convert people over), or find a likeminded micro that produces something fairly mainstream like that then more power to you

 

[schooey]

Pffft... why the fkn hell would I wreck my salvation and only escape, not to mention the best hobby on the planet, by making it my life?

 

[DJR]

Pffft... why the fkn hell would I wreck my salvation and only escape, not to mention the best hobby on the planet, by making it my life?

+1 - hobby=>business = wrecked dream

I'm up for taking a winemaker's approach to it though - use someone else's facilities (with enough compensation of course), brew something in small batches and sell it using the wine distribution model. Haven't done any analysis on whether that would actually work though. From reading people like Merc's posts it is still hard...

 

[yardy]

Kolsch
C.A.P
English IPA
Roggenbier
Schwarzbier
Oatmeal Stout

all served with a Ploughman's lunch in the beergarden overlooking the river....

 

[manticle]

Roggenbier

This surprises me. Why it's not even in the recipe database!

 

[waggastew]

I too think that going 'commercial'/professional on any hobby/interest is a nuts idea. I love playing music, regularly jam with mates, but don't want to re-mortgage my house for a shot at the 'big time'. Most of the blokes who 'made it big' in Oz rock (think Hunters & Collectors) now do 9-5's to pay off their debts.

Same thing for brewing/cooking/winemaking/golf etc. Keep your day job and think of these interests as an expensive hobby. Even if my mates come around and drink their weight in beer its still bloody cheap and there is no need to fill in a BAS statement or do an OH&S audit.

Make money doing what you are good at and spend it doing what you love!

Stew

PS. Love the idea of matched food and beer. My wife made me a Chocolate Ale cake for my birthday last week and it was tops!

http://www.thehungrymouse.com/2009/10/30/c...out-layer-cake/

 

[Hoser]

Reckon DJR is onto something. Saddling up with others to get better scale and underwrite your exposure is key. Tough balance though cuz you don't want your taps filled with Tooheys and Carlton Draught. Maybe a halfway point of getting scaleable microbrewers like Bluetongue or Mountain Goat alongside your mix of 6 made in house brews? Or maybe leverage a corp brand that has the appearance and more preferable taste to a VB - something like Fat Yak?

Agree that branding and experience go a long way too.

As for the brews themselves, agree with Manticle that I'd rotate the brews as I work through them. However, it's important to leave a mix of both what's interesting and what beer seekers want to. That might mean keeping APA on a regular rotation....

If only I had a million in the bank to bankroll my own brewpub....

On a non related note, being new to forums can someone please explain how I insert a quote from the forum thread?

 

[Hoser]

Hey Yardy loving the Canuck girl in your profile area! Friend of yours?

 

[manticle]

On a non related note, being new to forums can someone please explain how I insert a quote from the forum thread?

Make sure the 'quote tab on the reply you want to quote has a '+' symbol (plus), then hit the reply tab next to it.

Alternatively, select the quote you want, click control and C (to copy) then control v (to paste) into your reply. Then put square bracket quote close square bracket at the beginning and square bracket forward slash quote closes quare bracket at the end.


[= square bracket / = forward slash, quote = word 'quote', ] = close square bracket

 

[kenlock]

hey all,

been dreaming lately about owning my own brewpub, even started pricing different pubs for sale throughout sydney as i think it is easier to get the council approval to brew on premises if the pub is existing.. anyway like i said dreaming because i don't have the $$ required atm. been thinking about what styles i would brew and why. i think to keep up with everything 6 beers is a good number, here are the beers i am thinking.

1. american amber ale (would be the signature malty hop bomb that every brew pub needs) 40+ibu 6+% (thinking along the lines of a bear republic red rocket ale)
2. blonde ale (something easy drinking for the masses) 20ibu 4.4% (similar to stone and wood pacific ale)
3. american pale ale (an in between beer from the blonde to the amber) (thinking a dry version with plenty of cascade like sierra nevada pale)
4. a brown porter (something nutty, chocolaty and sweet but still easy drinking)
5. english ordinary bitter (think this for my light beer) 3ish%
6. maibock 7-8% my high alcohol but easy drinking beer (more along the lines of rogue dead guy ale)

anyway thats my dream, thoughts? what would you brew?

I think 4 - 6 beers would be a good number. Perhaps 4 yearly and 2 which are seasonal/special. If you are buying an established business, and hence cliental, then you would need to consider their tastes and how you might be able to shift them over time. If you set up from scratch in a area without 'amenities' then you are free to establish your own identity from day one.

I've got sporting teammates who drink megaswill, and buy megaswill for home, but happily drink craft beer when taken to a microbrewery. And even rave about how much they like a particular beer, because they've come to the micro many times with different people.

Know your business and know your cliental, but realise that for australians good beer at a good price will sell, especially when the atomsphere and amentiites match (or better) the product.

Plenty more I could add, but for those who want to make the beer scene that much closer to the USA all encouragement should be afforded. We are just 15 - 20 years behind.

Cheers Ken

 

[Bizier]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread, just got to Bribie's troll.

Sydney needs more places where you can go for a large hoppy beer. You can go out for a catpiss lager anywhere, AND you can pay through the nose for a decent one, but the current brewers that are in there are all pretty reserved, and the place simply needs a bloody shakeup to show Sydneysiders how to stretch their imagination of what a beer could possibly be. Less coddling. Less pandering to tastes of suits. More hops. More malt.

Out.

PS I would like to thank the Lord Nelson for all the times they have brewed Nelson's Blood.

 

[manticle]

I agree that people need to be more creative, braver and less pandering. I don't think the only way to do it is chucking hops at everything though (although I have heard of your attempts at AFD/week/month involving intense hop teas for comfort and reassurance)

 

[Jez]

The Sydney chapter of The Local Taphouse always seems packed whenever I go there and the beers are great, and expensive, so not only do Sydney CBD dwellers seem to want good beer but they're willing to pay for them. Same as everytime I can afford to wander into Redoak - its packed too. And charging $12 for a handpumped pint!! So maybe start one in the Sydney CBD somehow.

On another related note - I was at the James Squire Brewhouse at Darling Harbour here in Sydney recently just before Christmas for the first time in a few years (admittedly a Lion Nathan concern but still masquerading as a brewpub with shiny fermenters brewing allegedly) and was very disappointed that it now appears that it now has more megaswill on tap than actual James Squire brews. The horror.

 

[Bizier]

I agree that people need to be more creative, braver and less pandering. I don't think the only way to do it is chucking hops at everything though

I don't mean to say that there is no room for non-hoppy beers, nor low gravity beers.

I love the Brew Dog Juxtaposition Lager - I think that it would conform with Bribie's arguement, and I agree it would be nice to have more out there like it. A good lager is a great beverage, but it is not something Sydney is lacking, that is the vast majority of imported beers. As for commercial brewing, there are some serious arguments against making lagers in Sydney. For one, you have it brewing 'against' our climate conditions, meaning extra energy and expense. They take longer, and thus incur further expense, also requiring more fermentation capacity to meet the same demand. I feel like I am worked up and basically agreeing with people in the form of an argument, I must be rarely skilled. There is a reason that American micros usually make ales. They are generally more viable. They can also taste great.

I just would have liked to have seen a great local APA or IPA there. A notable beer for me was whatever the Twisted Hop (NZ) IPA was on cask at the Taphouse at an ANZAC thing or whatever. Beautiful and low OG. Look at some of the marvellous things that get done at The Wig and Pen or Murrays. I would love to see an English mild ale, a well-done Belgian (rather than a one-off seasonal where they have never learned to control the yeast), a well done weizen (ditto re: yeast), but I cannot deny that the thing that I most wanted, and would have drank the absolute **** out of, was a good IPA brewed in Sydney, irrespective whether English or American influenced. Have a good hoppy beer with a good quality malt behind it and a dry finish, and I am there. Another thing in my rant is that 'interesting' should not mean just adding something like Tic-Tacs, hobos, mangosteen or temporary Irish residents to a ho-hum recipe. Yes, I am tired.

I have heard of your attempts at AFD/week/month involving intense hop teas for comfort and reassurance)

You're living in the past, Marge.
Quit living in the past.

 

[petesbrew]

hey all,

been dreaming lately about owning my own brewpub, even started pricing different pubs for sale throughout sydney as i think it is easier to get the council approval to brew on premises if the pub is existing.. anyway like i said dreaming because i don't have the $$ required atm. been thinking about what styles i would brew and why. i think to keep up with everything 6 beers is a good number, here are the beers i am thinking.

1. american amber ale (would be the signature malty hop bomb that every brew pub needs) 40+ibu 6+% (thinking along the lines of a bear republic red rocket ale)
2. blonde ale (something easy drinking for the masses) 20ibu 4.4% (similar to stone and wood pacific ale)
3. american pale ale (an in between beer from the blonde to the amber) (thinking a dry version with plenty of cascade like sierra nevada pale)
4. a brown porter (something nutty, chocolaty and sweet but still easy drinking)
5. english ordinary bitter (think this for my light beer) 3ish%
6. maibock 7-8% my high alcohol but easy drinking beer (more along the lines of rogue dead guy ale)

anyway thats my dream, thoughts? what would you brew?

I like the list, but I'd be doing the blonde as a belgian.
And a bohemian pilsner would be a big seller in summertime.

 

[jayse]

Since the OP mentioned just 'dreaming' then I find the talk of simply a handfull of beer styles you would have as pretty unimaginative dreaming, if I was 'dreaming' about having a brewpub (as you do) then my dreams extend further then yeah, pale ale ,blonde, lager and wood fired pizza. If your just dreaming then the sky is not even the limit as to what you could do, I'd wear a fluffy hat and drive a pimp mobile, hang out with porn stars and b grade celebrities, have government officialls in my pocket and own a football team and above all have the greatest brewpub on earth were you can see black sabbath play on one saturday and led zeppelin the next.
I'd be doing cocaine with has been musicians and sleeping with daughters of high profile polliticians and maybe even that the other way around.

Maybe not but its more fun to dream about then pale ale and pilsner.

 

[Guysmiley54]

I too think that going 'commercial'/professional on any hobby/interest is a nuts idea. I love playing music, regularly jam with mates, but don't want to re-mortgage my house for a shot at the 'big time'. Most of the blokes who 'made it big' in Oz rock (think Hunters & Collectors) now do 9-5's to pay off their debts.

Same thing for brewing/cooking/winemaking/golf etc. Keep your day job and think of these interests as an expensive hobby. Even if my mates come around and drink their weight in beer its still bloody cheap and there is no need to fill in a BAS statement or do an OH&S audit.

Make money doing what you are good at and spend it doing what you love!

Stew

PS. Love the idea of matched food and beer. My wife made me a Chocolate Ale cake for my birthday last week and it was tops!

http://www.thehungrymouse.com/2009/10/30/c...out-layer-cake/

Not quite sure I agree with you there mate.

For the majority of my career I have made a full time living out of music. I think many people view these types of pursuits as all or nothing activities. As in: I want to be a professional musician, therefore I must have a top 40 success and tour the world! There are many different ways to make a living from your passion be it music, beer, food, coffee... you name it!! A couple of examples would be Ross from Craftbrewer, anyone with a brew on premises franchise. These are passion projects that explore different areas of beer and brewing.

Make money doing what you are good at... I don't think you can be exceptional at anything if you don't love it (or have loved it at some point) Making a hobby into work can be a bad idea but making a living that stems from passion and enthusiasm is always worth betting on.

 

[geoff_tewierik]

I'd go and open up a cidery near an orchard. Inspired by Raven Ridge, and having a passion for Cider I'd move to colder climes to be near my ingredients.

Depending on how serious you are, there's always Thorogoods Cider in Burra, SA, they have been on the market since last year.

 

[Bribie G]

A couple of us were discussing this thread at the grain BB pickup the other day and agreed that there's nothing worse than going to a craft brew pub and basically you can't taste a thing because all the beers are invariably served at 0.1 C which totally negates the whole exercise. Even German draught lagers are supposed to be served at 9
When I was in NZ I noted that the handpumped ales were served spot on around maybe 12 - a decent brewpub should have about three ranges of serving temps for Megastyles, Continental or US styles and UK styles including stouts.

On this point do the American craft pubs freeze the clappers off their beers like we do?

 

[DanRayner]

On this point do the American craft pubs freeze the clappers off their beers like we do?

They are usually served cool but I don't recall ever thinking "fark, I need to warm this sucker up". You don't usually see iced-over fonts in US brewpubs.