If Only Aussie Pie Shops Had This...

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Nick JD

Blah Blah Blah
Joined
4/11/08
Messages
7,322
Reaction score
456
I was in a hotdog joint the other day in Washington State - yup, a hotdog place - and this was their beer menu.

The world thinks Aussies are the most sterotypical beer drinkers of all, and yet we have the crappiest selection out. This makes me sad.

Buying beer in North America is like buying wine in Dan Murphys - there's almost too much choice.

It's a pale ale paradise.

The bottle stores in Canada have Chimay for $3 a bottle. And all the german wheatbeers for slightly less (500ml).

Homebrewing in Australia is popular because it is a necessity.

I had a Bud last night to make sure I wasn't dreaming. It was terrible.

IMG_2036_1_.JPG
 
Agreed 100%.

I think it is more than just the market size difference.
In my experience, average Americans are more willing to try new and different beers. More willing to seek them out.

I live in a town of 20,000 in the middle of the desert, surrounded by Navajo reservation, where people don't have much money. The nearest city is a 2 hour drive (at 140 km/hr), And yet the local pub has a far better beer selection that I could get at any pub on the Gold Coast when I lived there.

Your picture reminded me of something else too: nitro pour is a big thing in Colorado. You often get a choice of the IPAs on CO2 pour, Nitro pour, or cask. Wow choice overload.
 
Wow choice overload.

:D There was a better choice at a ski lunch place on the mountain I was on the other day than a Gold Coast Pub. I got a hefeweizen and an IPA - both supurb, to eat with my poutine (chips, cheeze and gravy) ... right beside the chairlifts.

I think a lot of the problem with variety in Australia is simply that all the different beers are essentially the same beer. I've lost count of the IPAs available at the bottle store here in Canada and yet I can't think of more than a couple of Aussie IPAs.

I wonder if it's got something to do with the hop growing? If Aus had more variety than the POR - which must be 90% of the hops grown locally?
 
That selection makes my head spin. It really is sad that the best I can get at my local (that I frequent ever 2 years) has at best Coopers Pale Ale on tap.

Nick and Zizzle - I'm jealous!
 
#2 on the tap list - Northern Lights - sounds like a nice choice, if I was swallowing down frankfurts there.

Skin or no skin, Nick?
 
I was in a hotdog joint the other day in Washington State - yup, a hotdog place - and this was their beer menu.

The world thinks Aussies are the most sterotypical beer drinkers of all, and yet we have the crappiest selection out. This makes me sad.

Buying beer in North America is like buying wine in Dan Murphys - there's almost too much choice.

It's a pale ale paradise.


This hardly seems surprising to me

Population of the US 310,531,000
Population of Australia 22,572,000

It would be nice to have a selection of beers like the US but we just don't have the turn over to make it profitable.

Batz
 
I really envy anyone who get s to go on a trip to the states, Nick you lucky bugger, have an IPA for me. Do you think the difference in the cost/availability of beer has something to do with the OZ government taxing the shit out of it? I'd be interested to know if the Americans do the same.

cheers

Browndog
 
This hardly seems surprising to me

Population of the US 310,531,000
Population of Australia 22,572,000

It would be nice to have a selection of beers like the US but we just don't have the turn over to make it profitable.

Batz

Easy to agree with you on this but as far as wine goes we seem to have plenty of choice, so why not beer.

Maybe its just taking time for the market to adjust. I can remember in my life when back when most pubs in SA had 2 beers on tap. One full Strength and one light, now most pubs have about 8 or 10.
 
I really envy anyone who get s to go on a trip to the states, Nick you lucky bugger, have an IPA for me. Do you think the difference in the cost/availability of beer has something to do with the OZ government taxing the shit out of it? I'd be interested to know if the Americans do the same.

cheers

Browndog
Yup it does.
When comparing u have to take everything into account: market/population size, govt tax laws on production/import/export, liquor licensing laws and costs etc.

I think you'd find that it's a combination of several reasons. A major causal effect being that it's prohibitively expensive to be a microbrewery which kind of kills tge issues at start of the cycle. Then you've got the venue/licensing/running issues, then the tax issues again when it comes to selling the beer, we have hugely expensive beer because of tax. It just kills the market for slightly more expensive better beers.

Anyways ur a lucky prick nick. What sort of dog and beer did u get?
 
A quick google finds the usual pish...it seems they have may have a good balance between 'Joe Six-Pack' and Craft Beer drinkers with the excise being such that there is a viable market for the craft brewers and lots of choice for those still owning taste buds (pun intended).


Wierd Beer Laws

Selective tax hike..
 
Very jealous nick, i was over there 18 months ago only wish i was a homebrewer when i was there. Don't get me wrong i tried heaps of beers but being a brewer takes it to a new level!!

Enjoy mate!!
 
Batz is right, in a way, there isn't the actual diversity in Australia due to our small population but we have at least as many micro-breweries as the US in relative terms.

Population of the US 310,531,000, number of craft breweries 1,595 (ref). = 194,690 people per craft brewery.
Population of Australia 22,572,000, number of craft breweries 138*. = 163,565 people per craft brewery.

Based on this Australia has as many or maybe more craft breweries per capita than the US. We just need more people in Australia to increase the actual diversity of beers...

Plus - the US has the same issues with their majors as we do - taking up loads of shelf space in supermarkets:

060308tns_beer800.JPG


I tend to disagree about Americans being, on average, more willing to experiment with new beers than Australians - the Australian beer market has seen similar trends in sales as the US over the last few years. Overall beer sales are declining in the US but craft beer has grown over the last couple of years and similarly, Fosters and VB have, over the last 18months, lost ground to Little Creatures, Coopers' and others. We have similar tastes, both the average drinker and ones willing to experiment. And your average bogan VB drinker is not much different from an American trailer trash drinker of bud-light.

So what's the problem? I put it down to pretty much one thing: federal excise.

The US doesn't tax it's beer anywhere near as much as we do. I was in Manhattan the year before last in a tiny (expensive, relatively speaking) "bodega" or corner store and they had six-packs of Coopers' Pale imported from Australia selling for $8USD! This is because brewers and winemakers are exempt from federal excise in Australia if the stock is being exported. Last year when I was in California for a mate's wedding the first thing I did after getting my hire-car and getting the **** out of LA was to pull into a little liquor store and buy a mixed case of awesomeness; when I approached the counter with a six-pack of 355mL Stone Oaked Arrogant ******* Ale the dude said "WHOAH! That's the most expensive sixpack we have, are you sure you want it?" and I said "How much?" he replied "$14.99" - SOLD!

Excise on alcohol in Australia beers (especially bottled beer) is enormous. $40.46 paid for every 1L of alcohol in beer packaged in containers not exceeding 48L - that equates to about $4/six-pack of 5% beer. If you wanted to make/sell a sixpack of a beer equivalent to the awesome Stone Arrogant ******* Ale with an alcohol content of 7.2%alc/vol then you'd be paying $5.75 before you had even sold it to a distributor.

In the US, it's decidedly cheaper. $18USd per 31 Gallons of beer (regardless of the alcoholic strength). This equates to $0.30 per sixpack of beer (any beer)... Oops! Forgot. If you are a small brewery in the US, one who makes less than 2 million barrels a year (238 million litres or there abouts) you only pay $7 per barrel on your first 60,000 barrels - so $0.12 per sixpack of beer. This is rather like the wine equalisation tax in Australia - except we don't have it for beer. poo.

Also, Chimay is cheaper in Canada cos we pay customs duty at an equivalent rate to ATO alcohol excise on imported alcohol.

I suggest Australia's beer excise slows the rate of experimentation in breweries - you notice how (until "Single Batch" started coming out) that Little Creatures went from their super-awesome LCPA to brewing LCBA (tastes like a dumbed-down, filtered LCPA) to Pilsner, to Rogers'? Don't get me wrong, these beers are well made and quite tasty, but they pale in comparison (pardon the pun) when compared with LCPA. If you look at similar US craft breweries they make their flagship beer and then they go out and "double" it or "double oak" it or super-maxi-triple-upsize-darken-age-it! But this would be financially so much riskier if you were paying huge excise on beer and if that excise increased with an increase in alcohol like it is here.

Not all craft breweries are like this of course (look at Moo Brew, Jameson, Wicked Elf, Bridge Road to name a few) but I'm sure it has an effect.

Bring on the BET (beer equalisation tax) or "give craft beer a fair go"

end of rant.

So what awesome beers are you trying Nick? I've only been to Seattle in Washington - but Pike's Brewery was a cool spot - right in the middle of undercover markets. I actually went into the markets thinking I should give beer a rest after several weeks of hitting it and within 100m of the entrance was this awesome brewery and so I thought **** it, the beer gods have led me here. Redhook and Pyramid were the only other ones I remember trying - both pretty good though!

cheers!

Dan

* (approximately - ref was Wikipedia, plus some of these breweries include things like Malt Shovel and some others I didn't see in the list - happy to be corrected but it's probably not that much different)
 
One thing that causes problems for micros in America is the difficulty of exporting beer to other states, which from what I gather is a PITA.
 
Actually, after all of that rant - I realised pretty quickly that there are patches in the US where local laws encourage or discourage the establishment of breweries. This map displays number of breweries per state in the US and it is clear that if Australia as a whole had the same interest in craft breweries as Portland, Oregon or the state of Vermont then we could afford to have between 330*, 464** and 690*** breweries here.

photo_1239657592.png


*2.2million in the Portland metro district with 32 breweries = 1 per 68750 people
**5million colorado 103 breweries = 1 per 48543 people
***Vermont has 1 brewery per 32698 people
 
One thing that causes problems for micros in America is the difficulty of exporting beer to other states, which from what I gather is a PITA.

Yeah, I'd read something along those lines in Hindy & Potter's Beer School - there are crazy unions and associations that have tight restrictions on who, how and where you can distribute....
 
Wow, sure got Dan wound up :D

I grew up in CA and watched the effect of the changes in the tax laws that spawned the microbrewery revolution in the US. Absolutely fascinating study of how taxation policy can stimulate the economy. Basically, as long as you were under the 'threshold', taxes were relatively cheap. Yes, issues with interstate sales, but didn't really matter if your production was in that boutique brewery envelope.

Having lived here for 13-years, I'd absolutely say changes have been phenomenal, but there's still a long way to go to mirror the US, even on a per capita basis.

My trip to NZ last year opened my eyes up to the fact that population difference between here and the US is definitely not the barrier. They are as isolated and less populated, yet you can get a 6-pack of Monteiths -- which isn't a bad drop -- for NZ$10 or less on special. And, that's just the mainstream, with lots of tasty local alternatives.

I have to go with the tax issue. The US created a tax policy that stimulated an industry. NZ is far more affordable and offers better selection. While there might be an element of lacking consumer demand/sophistication here, I think the tax policy is the linchpin.

The other factor though is probably licensing. In NZ you can pick up beer right in the supermarket, just like the US (as well as lots of other outlets). Here, even the big supermarket chains have to have a separate outlet, even when their connected. I expect that adds to the cost of doing business.

I agree, the relative popularity of homebrewing here is at least in part related to necessity, in terms of both cost and choice (although the latter is at least getting better, but it's still very hard to find Aussie craft brews -- very limited retail outlets).
 
This hardly seems surprising to me

Population of the US 310,531,000
Population of Australia 22,572,000

It would be nice to have a selection of beers like the US but we just don't have the turn over to make it profitable.

Batz

Sorry Batz, but your statement doesn't make sense to me. I went to the paddo the other day and they had about 15 taps flowing. Apart from one with Coopers PA and a Redback, all had bland mega lagers. We have enough population to keep 15 taps turning over, but the problem is Australia's beer culture is stuck in the 70s (regardless of new-fangled low-carb-blonde midstrength-dry styles which are still mega lagers).

Cheers - Snow
 
Not to offend, but the Paddo isn't a source of open minded people..... * edit oh your in Brissy.. sorry I was thinking the Paddo in Perth.

If the tax system was sorted out and people actually cared about what they put in their mouth we would se great change.
 
Wow, sure got Dan wound up :D

Ya - working in a craft beer shop gets me wound up about not getting enough nice beers :/

But I hope it will change, Mountain Goats Cam & Dave are all over the tax issue so hopefully it will soon.

I note that you're in Qld, Wilda - where they have some strange off-licencing laws (like only having a liquor store attached to a pub and subsequently Woolies owns loads of pubs?) - it's a bit different down south we too can pick up beer in supermarkets but the stores still aren't taking up too many craft beers and the ones they do pick up are a bit dull Crackenback, Beez Neez, Blue Tongue Lager, Byron Bay Premium Ale etc
 
That board reminds me of the Wheaty here in Adelaide!

Awesome for a hot dog shop! :icon_drool2:
 

Latest posts

Back
Top