If Only Aussie Pie Shops Had This...

[browndog]

Our tax laws reflect our polititians and their attitudes, expensive, lazy and uninspiring. I'd be very surprised if any of then has had an original thought since they built the snowy scheme.

-BD

 

[WildaYeast]

I note that you're in Qld, Wilda - where they have some strange off-licencing laws (like only having a liquor store attached to a pub and subsequently Woolies owns loads of pubs?) - it's a bit different down south

Good to hear. Lived in Sydney for 7-years before moving up here 6-years ago and it was the same there as here (more or less). Has the ACT changed recently, or always been different? In NSW you could find a liquor outlet attached to a supermarket, but it was still separate -- different till, etc., so maybe more relaxed than Qld, but nothing like US or NZ I'd say.

WY

 

[bcp]

When i started travelling to the US in the 90s, I was preconvinced they have crap beer, because i remembered budweiser and some others - but I was in for a shock. It's one of the reasons i started rethinking my approach to beer.

I don't think it's just population. You go to a small state like oregon or washington, and they produce so many great beers locally just for local consumption. I think it's more that the homebrewing led to microbrewing a lot earlier. And if more Australians were open to trying different beers as they are there, we would have more viable alternatives.

 

[manticle]

Craft beer appreciation and homebrewing scene here are much younger than US too. Look at how much things have changed in the last 10-15 years? Give it time (and piss the excise off)

 

[bum]

I just wish there actually were pie shops.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

I just wish there actually were pie shops.

Hell yes, how hard it is to find a decent pie these days!

 

[peaky]

I just wish there actually were pie shops.

Let me know how you get on with the camel pie :lol:

The Pie Shed Bayswater

 

[peas_and_corn]

People in SA have it covered well with the 24/7 bakery in Norwood. Hmm, need to visit sometime soon...

 

[Hatchy]

As well as the (licenced) 24/7 vilis in mile end. Certainly not a spectacular selection there but they do sell beer & pies.

 

[brettprevans]

Let me know how you get on with the camel pie :lol:

The Pie Shed Bayswater

Yup 5min from me. Had almost every pie there. So needs beer. Is only a couple hundred Metres from Bunnings also. I can only say it rocks.

 

[Bizier]

I think a lot of the problem with variety in Australia is simply that all the different beers are essentially the same beer.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I am disappointed when I get shitty, middle-of-the-road beer being touted as some ultra-premium gift from the gods. Or the amount of average lagers being sold as 'craft beer'. If it says "loads of flavour", then it had better bloody flavourful. Is it too much to ask? At least the Americans have sorted that out.

When we landed in NYC in sept, I wanted to drink off the flight a little, and went into the fine wine store opp where we were staying, thinking I could get some sweet IPA, yet I couldn't find the beer. The attendant looked at me like I was an idiot. Ed: I actually was scared for a minute that I was going to have a hard time finding good beer. HA!

 

[eamonnfoley]

Batz is right, in a way, there isn't the actual diversity in Australia due to our small population but we have at least as many micro-breweries as the US in relative terms.

Population of the US 310,531,000, number of craft breweries 1,595 (ref). = 194,690 people per craft brewery.
Population of Australia 22,572,000, number of craft breweries 138*. = 163,565 people per craft brewery.

Based on this Australia has as many or maybe more craft breweries per capita than the US. We just need more people in Australia to increase the actual diversity of beers...

Plus - the US has the same issues with their majors as we do - taking up loads of shelf space in supermarkets:

I tend to disagree about Americans being, on average, more willing to experiment with new beers than Australians - the Australian beer market has seen similar trends in sales as the US over the last few years. Overall beer sales are declining in the US but craft beer has grown over the last couple of years and similarly, Fosters and VB have, over the last 18months, lost ground to Little Creatures, Coopers' and others. We have similar tastes, both the average drinker and ones willing to experiment. And your average bogan VB drinker is not much different from an American trailer trash drinker of bud-light.

So what's the problem? I put it down to pretty much one thing: federal excise.

The US doesn't tax it's beer anywhere near as much as we do. I was in Manhattan the year before last in a tiny (expensive, relatively speaking) "bodega" or corner store and they had six-packs of Coopers' Pale imported from Australia selling for $8USD! This is because brewers and winemakers are exempt from federal excise in Australia if the stock is being exported. Last year when I was in California for a mate's wedding the first thing I did after getting my hire-car and getting the **** out of LA was to pull into a little liquor store and buy a mixed case of awesomeness; when I approached the counter with a six-pack of 355mL Stone Oaked Arrogant ******* Ale the dude said "WHOAH! That's the most expensive sixpack we have, are you sure you want it?" and I said "How much?" he replied "$14.99" - SOLD!

Excise on alcohol in Australia beers (especially bottled beer) is enormous. $40.46 paid for every 1L of alcohol in beer packaged in containers not exceeding 48L - that equates to about $4/six-pack of 5% beer. If you wanted to make/sell a sixpack of a beer equivalent to the awesome Stone Arrogant ******* Ale with an alcohol content of 7.2%alc/vol then you'd be paying $5.75 before you had even sold it to a distributor.

In the US, it's decidedly cheaper. $18USd per 31 Gallons of beer (regardless of the alcoholic strength). This equates to $0.30 per sixpack of beer (any beer)... Oops! Forgot. If you are a small brewery in the US, one who makes less than 2 million barrels a year (238 million litres or there abouts) you only pay $7 per barrel on your first 60,000 barrels - so $0.12 per sixpack of beer. This is rather like the wine equalisation tax in Australia - except we don't have it for beer. poo.

Also, Chimay is cheaper in Canada cos we pay customs duty at an equivalent rate to ATO alcohol excise on imported alcohol.

I suggest Australia's beer excise slows the rate of experimentation in breweries - you notice how (until "Single Batch" started coming out) that Little Creatures went from their super-awesome LCPA to brewing LCBA (tastes like a dumbed-down, filtered LCPA) to Pilsner, to Rogers'? Don't get me wrong, these beers are well made and quite tasty, but they pale in comparison (pardon the pun) when compared with LCPA. If you look at similar US craft breweries they make their flagship beer and then they go out and "double" it or "double oak" it or super-maxi-triple-upsize-darken-age-it! But this would be financially so much riskier if you were paying huge excise on beer and if that excise increased with an increase in alcohol like it is here.

Not all craft breweries are like this of course (look at Moo Brew, Jameson, Wicked Elf, Bridge Road to name a few) but I'm sure it has an effect.

Bring on the BET (beer equalisation tax) or "give craft beer a fair go"

end of rant.

So what awesome beers are you trying Nick? I've only been to Seattle in Washington - but Pike's Brewery was a cool spot - right in the middle of undercover markets. I actually went into the markets thinking I should give beer a rest after several weeks of hitting it and within 100m of the entrance was this awesome brewery and so I thought **** it, the beer gods have led me here. Redhook and Pyramid were the only other ones I remember trying - both pretty good though!

cheers!

Dan

* (approximately - ref was Wikipedia, plus some of these breweries include things like Malt Shovel and some others I didn't see in the list - happy to be corrected but it's probably not that much different)

great post! +1x10^6

 

[newguy]

OT: Funny thought struck me as I was reading this thread...In Germany (who doesn't think of Germany as a great beer nation) the pubs/restaurants rarely have more than 2-3 beers available. In many places, it's just one. The flipside is that if you don't like the selection, just walk 2 doors down and the selection is completely different.

 

[schooey]

Easy to agree with you on this but as far as wine goes we seem to have plenty of choice, so why not beer.

Because wine is easier to export and that's what happens to a fair slug of the wine produced in this country. Imagine us trying to import IIPA's into America...

 

[schooey]

Let me know how you get on with the camel pie :lol:

The Pie Shed Bayswater

Pffft... you call that a pie shop?

Fredo Pies

 

[Maxt]

Great post Dan. I know it has been said before, but if beer makers got the same tax breaks as winemakers (supposedly to boost regional tourism etc), we would have a much healthier industry, and a real economic boost for rural and regional towns. Can you imagine the potential for road trips if each little town had a micro with 2 or 3 regular and a selection of seasonal brews?
By the way Dan got that PhD yet?!

 

[DanRayner]

great post! +1x10^6

HA!

Post+1x10^6=NEEERD!

(I am too)

Great post Dan. I know it has been said before, but if beer makers got the same tax breaks as winemakers (supposedly to boost regional tourism etc), we would have a much healthier industry, and a real economic boost for rural and regional towns. Can you imagine the potential for road trips if each little town had a micro with 2 or 3 regular and a selection of seasonal brews?
By the way Dan got that PhD yet?!

Thanks guys, and no Maxt, not yet. I've been sitting in my office the last few days trying to bash out some chapters but I keep getting distracted by beer fora

I try and do at least a little brewery road trip when I go to the States purely cos you can in most places. If you are considering it check out The Beer Mapping Project it is yet another great way to waste time when you should be doing other work. It also has Europe, UK, NZ and Oz.

 

[Zizzle]

I think there are 3 states in the US where craft beer has over 20% of the market share!

But nation wide, only 7%. That means there are some states where the market share of craft beer must be pretty low.

So I guess it's all about perspective. Guess which states I tend to have been or lived in?

 

[WildaYeast]

So maybe we need a 'craft-brew' party...

Just one Senator, eh?, with a private member's bill aimed at stimulating a struggling sector of our economy.

It's about jobs. It's about fair dinkum local product. Nationalism and local parochialism all in one.

Good for tourism, both domestic and overseas. And when the dollar plunges, who knows what's possible on the export scene.

Have I got your vote?

"I drink and I care", vote Craft Brew!

:lol:

 

[Newbiebrewer]

yeah I'd vote for a craftbrew party at least the vote would be going to something I believe in.

Side note: the guys who run fairgocraftbrew.com.au does anyone know why they don't have an online petition?