Ideal Flavour & Aroma Hop Ratios And Addition Times

[neonmeate]

depends on the hops (and beer) in question surely? i reckon you would taste it if you used 10g of chinook for bittering in a kolsch. otoh the old single 100g addition of hallertau for 60 mins in an alt results in plenty of flavour too. it's a question of balancing these things up with the other flavours in the beer, and the bitterness that the additions give, there's no simple formula that will work for every beer.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

When you did the hopburst beer, did you also dry hop that, SMOI?

I did, but to a lesser extent than I would normally, so I could more easily see what was going on. I was disappointed by the hop flavour that came out of it more than the aroma that didn't show.

 

[Stuster]

depends on the hops (and beer) in question surely? i reckon you would taste it if you used 10g of chinook for bittering in a kolsch. otoh the old single 100g addition of hallertau for 60 mins in an alt results in plenty of flavour too. it's a question of balancing these things up with the other flavours in the beer, and the bitterness that the additions give, there's no simple formula that will work for every beer.

Yes, it depends on many things. They suggest that 25IBUs is balanced for a 1050 beer. That would be fine for some beers, much too high for a hefeweizen, and probably too low for an APA.

And how come a 1050 beer with 45IBUs is off the scale completely? :lol:

 

[Uncle Fester]

I've used this table as a guide and when I do, it seems to work pretty well, in spite of the fact that I BIAB and no-chill.

Begs the question.... I assume that the graph assumes a rapid chilling of the beer. I wonder how the figures skew if the brew is no-chilled to ambient room temperature?

I bvaguely remeberthere was a bit of a belief that the No-chill imparted a few extra IBU's to the brew (I am yet to brew the same beer twice, let alone compare a chilled and no chilled effort agains eachother)


Any ideas?

Festa.

 

[Tony]

Probably good as a guide, but if their comments below it are anything to go by I wouldn't rely too much on its accuracy..

"As you can see, peak AROMA is about 7 minutes after the start of the boil.
Peak FLAVOR is about 20 minutes into the boil and peak BITTERNESS is arrived at about 60 minutes.

Hops boiled for 20 minutes yeild maximum flavor but all the aroma has dissipated.
By 40 minutes, all the flavor has disipated."

Saying ALL aroma & flavour are dissipated after these times is not correct...

Cheers Ross

I totaly agree with this ross.

I cant say i have a lot of faith in that graph.

Where are the results of studdies, tests, experiments.

Or is it the conclusion of someone without experience that read a couple of books.

Its things like this graph that make PP post posts about mis information.

It says that flame out additions give no aroma........... what a load of shit!

I started out adding my bittering hops at 90 min when i started brewing to get the most out of them bitterness wise.

I then reduced it to 60 min cause i needed more late additions to get the flavour and aroma i wanted.

I now add my bittering hops at 45 min and am very happy with the rusults. Sure you need a few more grams of hops but it works for me.

I add flavour hops at 15 to 20 min and aroma at 5 min to flamo out.

I have a couple of favorite hopping schedules.

No.1

10 IBU FWH in 60 min boil
remainder at 40 to 45 min
1g/liter at flame out.

produces a very easy drinking, non confonting beer with fantastic aroma

No.2

most of bitterness at 45 min.
0.5 - 1g/liter at 15 min
1g/liter at 5 min

Produces a ballanced beer with smooth bitterness and matching flavor and aroma

No.3

all bitterness at 45 mn
0.5g/ liter flamo out

I use this nethod for wheat beers, and malty lagers like helles. the aroms is light and mellows quickly the pronounce the malt.

hope this helps. Its what i use but may not be to others tastes. Of course its not rock sollid rules, if you mant more flavour, up the flavour hops....... simple.

cheers

 

[matti]

I hope that graph is only there for guidance because the ph value has a hell of a lot do with how much you get out of your hop at different times.
As for the comment below shlould be made with a disclaimer cause it seem a bit odd as well.

I'm with tony and ross on adding bittering hop at around 45 min.
Improved my brews tenfold. still add flavour at 20 min or around about and aroma at 5 minutes

 

[Stuster]

That's very interesting, Tony and matti. I'm going to try adding bittering hops at 45. :super:

 

[SJW]

I dont understand the revelation about adding bittering hops for 45min. Surly you would simply be trading off a little bitterness for a little more flavour and thats what you would need to add more hops to up the IBU's, and I bet it tastes good, more flavour. That brings me to my original question, why not take it one step further and add all the hops in one addition at 30 mins.
I thought the idea of a hopping schedule is to get the best value of your hops i.e. max bitterness (60 min boil) with the least amount of hops and same with flavour and aroma.
I thought AndrewQLD's comments were interesting but there has been no comment.
Just thinking out loud.

Steve

 

[Brewer_010]

I think any info at hand is useful in the absence of experience. I don't have a great deal of exp so am trying different techniques etc til I find something that suits me, for a particular style.

So thanks Tony for your hops shedules, I will give them a go in a beer soon :beer:

Cheers

 

[T.D.]

The best results I have gotten have been from adding smaller additions gradually across the second half of the boil. Say every 5 or 10 mintues from 30mins to flameout. I find this gives you a much more "integrated" hop flavour and aroma. My experience with adding a whole bunch of hops at 15mins, for example, and another whole bunch at flameout is that the hoppiness is more pronounced but doesn't seem to be as "balanced".

The hop schedule I have been using quite a bit recently is:

60min
20min
10min
5min
flameout

The amount at each of these depends on how hoppy you want the beer to be. I find 1g/L at each of the late additions is good for getting a "hoppy" beer that's not too over the top.

 

[Peter Wadey]

.... That brings me to my original question, why not take it one step further and add all the hops in one addition at 30 mins.....

Steve

Hi SJW,
Because you may not want that much hop flavour.

Sorry, no magic formula. For me it depends on the style being made and the raw ingredients.
Differences between hop varieties and also within the same variety (due to storage etc) would mean that you would probably want to make adjustments anyway.

I think you have a very good 'excuse' to brew more beer.

Rgds,
Peter

 

[SJW]

Its a great subject and a great hobbie. I love it. I just think that there is so much talk about malts, sugars and equipement I am finding it interesting to hear about others experiences with hops and sheduling. And I will give Toni's shedules a go, but I like AndrewQLD's thoughts on a 60 40 & 20 min. additions so I will try that in my next brew, a Bav. Lager.

Steve

 

[AndrewQLD]

WOW :blink: Now that goes against everything I have read. I guess now all I have to do is try it for myself, and that I will.
I must say that I have done over 40 AG brews now using the very late additions for flavour and aroma and have not found a great difference in end results no matter how much I add at say flame out or 1 min. At least with the 60 40 20 therory if you can cut down on the o/a amount of hops used and get the same or better results than using late additions it has to be a good thing.

Steve

Steve, I only use a 60,40,20 schedule for my Pilsners, I have spent a lot of time trying to capture the taste of european pilsners and the hop schedule seems to help a lot St Pats was where I sourced the info for my recipe and there is a lot of info Here from a brewer who visited a Moravian brewery and spent a day brewing there.
I don't use that schedule for any other style of beer but it certainly gives a rounded hop complexity that is intense but not overly dominant or grassy.

I can't say I have cut down on the hops, 55grams of 3.1% Saaz for each addition is a fair amount of hops but they do blend into the malt very well.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[SJW]

Thanks Andrew, that a great link, very interesting.
Just wondering if you new what effects do using the NO CHILLER method of brewing have on hopping? The obvious difference is that the hops are exposed to the hot wort for longer. Would this add much to the IBU and would it reduce the aroma?

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thanks Andrew, that a great link, very interesting.
Just wondering if you new what effects do using the NO CHILLER method of brewing have on hopping? The obvious difference is that the hops are exposed to the hot wort for longer. Would this add much to the IBU and would it reduce the aroma?

I can't say I have noticed any real difference between chilled or no chilled. I would think that it is the effect that BOILING wort has on hops that extracts the bitterness/aromas to varying degrees. I don't know for a fact that hot wort as opposed to boiling wort would have the same affect. However that is only my assumption and I have not ever researched it. It would be interesting to know though .

Cheers
Andrew