Huge Head !

[boatrunners]

Hey Guys

So I put down my first brew in about 25years a few weeks ago now, a Mexican Cerveza, double batch and kegged it
just under 2 weeks ago. I had a few issues at the time and the help I recieved here was greatly appreciated and now
I need a bit more advice.
I refrigerated the keg for 1 day and then hooked up the gass and set the reg at about 15psi, after 3 days I purged the
head of the keg and reduced the pressure to approx 10psi and the fridge temp is sitting around 2 degree C.
Poured a couple of samples off the keg yesterday and although it doesnt taste too bad (even at this early stage ) it is
pouring like foam.
If I pour into a jug or glass I will get at least 80% of the pour will be all head and I have to let it sit for around 5 minutes
for the huge head to dissapate before I can have a drink.
The reading that I have done indicates that my beer line from the keg to the tap should be roughly around 10ft but at
this point it is only around 5ft.
Could this be my problem or have I screwed something else up.
Any good sugestions where I go from here.

Cheers
Peter :huh:

 

[raven19]

15PSI is only around 100kPa, so I dont think you have overcarbed your beer - I think you may just need a longer length of beer line from keg to tap as you already suspect.

 

[going down a hill]

You might have more luck with your problem if you post it over in Gear and Equipment. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showforum=6

 

[tonyt]

Hey Guys

So I put down my first brew in about 25years a few weeks ago now, a Mexican Cerveza, double batch and kegged it
just under 2 weeks ago. I had a few issues at the time and the help I recieved here was greatly appreciated and now
I need a bit more advice.
I refrigerated the keg for 1 day and then hooked up the gass and set the reg at about 15psi, after 3 days I purged the
head of the keg and reduced the pressure to approx 10psi and the fridge temp is sitting around 2 degree C.
Poured a couple of samples off the keg yesterday and although it doesnt taste too bad (even at this early stage ) it is
pouring like foam.
If I pour into a jug or glass I will get at least 80% of the pour will be all head and I have to let it sit for around 5 minutes
for the huge head to dissapate before I can have a drink.
The reading that I have done indicates that my beer line from the keg to the tap should be roughly around 10ft but at
this point it is only around 5ft.
Could this be my problem or have I screwed something else up.
Any good sugestions where I go from here.

Cheers
Peter :huh:

provided that it is not over carbed, just set regulator as low as possible just enough to push beer out,if it pours ok....the beer line is too short. I had same problem. What internal diameter line are you using? I was using 6mm at 2.5 meters long and beer was coming out too fast, cuasing too much foam.

I switched to 5mm ID line at 2m long and problem solved.Depending on your set up ,you may have to start a little longer and trim a little at a time to you get it right.

Cheers

Cheers

 

[boatrunners]

provided that it is not over carbed, just set regulator as low as possible just enough to push beer out,if it pours ok....the beer line is too short. I had same problem. What internal diameter line are you using? I was using 6mm at 2.5 meters long and beer was coming out too fast, cuasing too much foam.

I switched to 5mm ID line at 2m long and problem solved.Depending on your set up ,you may have to start a little longer and trim a little at a time to you get it right.

Cheers

Cheers

This is the first time I have used a keg system for home brew and having purchased the set up of a mate, "as is", I am unsure of the
internal diameter of the pipe but it certainly looks like it is the best place to start.

I will replace the pipe with about 10ft and take it from there, I can always shorten the line if I need to and I will make sure the internal diameter is no more than 5 mm


Thanks for the advice

Cheers
Peter

 

[malt_shovel]

This is the first time I have used a keg system for home brew and having purchased the set up of a mate, "as is", I am unsure of the
internal diameter of the pipe but it certainly looks like it is the best place to start.

I will replace the pipe with about 10ft and take it from there, I can always shorten the line if I need to and I will make sure the internal diameter is no more than 5 mm


Thanks for the advice

Cheers
Peter

Trying to upload a excel spreadsheet I pinched form another forum somewhere a while back.

has a handy calculator and spreadsheet of CO2 vols vs carbonation pressure.

May help you set your system up. Interesting to note the changes in required length vs internal diameter. (about a quater of the resistance in a 6mm ID line comarped to a 5mm ID line).

Hope this helps

View attachment crozdog_balancing_table.xls

Cheers
:beer:

 

[boatrunners]

provided that it is not over carbed, just set regulator as low as possible just enough to push beer out,if it pours ok....the beer line is too short. I had same problem. What internal diameter line are you using? I was using 6mm at 2.5 meters long and beer was coming out too fast, cuasing too much foam.

I switched to 5mm ID line at 2m long and problem solved.Depending on your set up ,you may have to start a little longer and trim a little at a time to you get it right.

Cheers

Cheers

OK so I have lengthened the beer line to 3m, Keg temp is at 3 degree C and C02 is set at 10psi and i am still pouring Icecreams. Now I am getting frustrated

Any other ideas ?

Peter

 

[tonyt]

OK so I have lengthened the beer line to 3m, Keg temp is at 3 degree C and C02 is set at 10psi and i am still pouring Icecreams. Now I am getting frustrated

Any other ideas ?

Peter

What internal size is your line?
Did you try and pour at say 5,6 psi? And see what happens?

 

[malt_shovel]

OK so I have lengthened the beer line to 3m, Keg temp is at 3 degree C and C02 is set at 10psi and i am still pouring Icecreams. Now I am getting frustrated

Any other ideas ?

Peter

If you are using 5mm ID line, then 3m should be OK. If 6mm or larger, then there is a huge difference in resistance to flow, such that 3m is nowhere near enough.

If you think your system is balanced (have you had a look at the spreadsheet I attached yet?), then you may need to consider that during the initial force carbonation that you over carbed the beer. Did you sit it on your knee and shake the bejeesus out of it once you got it cold? Any of these "burst" processes are a bit hit and miss for a first time keggerator operator. The way to rectify this is to slowly decrease the CO2 content of the beer. Do this by disconnecting the CO2 from the keg, and purge from the relief valve on the top of the keg. Wait a few minutes (say 20 or 30) and repeat until you get almost no gas coming out of the relief valve (shaking the keg periodically will liberate more CO2 quicker, but will lift sediment etc), and then hook up the gas, set it to your preferred serving pressure (based on the balanced system calculations for your particular setup), and wait for it to gradually carb up. The set and forget way without shaking/agitating on a balanced system will get you there within 48 hrs or so.

Some people shake it a lot at high pressure (higher than serving) and then purge the headspace and then pour at a lower pressure, but I think this really is trying to compensate for lack of a balanced system. Keep at it, as it is well worth it once you have it balanced out, you can pour a perfect beer anytime. For my preferences, I would be shooting for around 2 volumes of CO2. I would normally have the temp around 6-8oC, which means I have my reg set at about 8 - 10psi. If you like your beer served at 3oC, then maybe set your reg for 5 - 6psi.

Another thing to try and work out if the beer is overcarbed is
1) - shutoff the CO2 from the reg to the keg, close the CO2 cylinder and purge the gas line (should be a safety valve on the reg)
2) - purge the headspace of the keg (open the relief valve and close it again once it has finished purging).
3) - reset the regulator such that no CO2 will flow once you open the system up (this should be done by backing out the screw on the regulator a couple of turns)
4) - open the CO2 cylinder (your reg should show the CO2 pressure)
5) - open the gas-line to the keg (the reg will probably register a small build-up in headspace pressure since purging it previously - this is the kegs pressure which should be close to zero). At this point you don't want any gas filling up the keg headspace again. If you hear it rushing in, shutoff the gas-line, back off on the regulator some more and purge the headspace again, then open the gas line agian.
6) - Now the system is all connected and once you increase the flow from the reg, you will start to put CO2 pressure into the keg.
7) - Open the tap on your keg (nothing should come out), and then gradually increase the gas from the regulator until you start to flow beer.

If you are only just managing to get a slow slow pour from your keg and it is still all foam, then you have overcarbed your beer.

If you are on 5mm ID line, and you think your system is balanced and you think the beer is not over carbed, then the only other thought I have is if the tap is way warmer than the beer, it may take some cold fluid going through the tap to cool it down, otherwise the sudden increase in temp when using it the first couple of pours may liberate a lot of CO2 causing a lot of foaming. I use a pluto gun, which sits in my fridge with my keg such that it is at the same temp as the beer I will pour, which avoids this problem. It means I have to open my fridge each time I want a beer, but it works for me.

Give me a shout if none of this makes sense.

Cheers
:beer:

 

[fergi]

OK so I have lengthened the beer line to 3m, Keg temp is at 3 degree C and C02 is set at 10psi and i am still pouring Icecreams. Now I am getting frustrated

Any other ideas ?

Peter

ok you are going to get a lot of different ideas, heres mine, turn gas off from your c02 bottle, burp keg for about 5 secs and try pouring a few beers .leave the gas off until it starts to not pour very fast , this might be 10 or so glasses,depends, when it starts to pour ok set your pressure to 80 kp and leave it like that for a day or two.see how it works from there, thats what i did with the same problem.

fergi

 

[boatrunners]

If you are using 5mm ID line, then 3m should be OK. If 6mm or larger, then there is a huge difference in resistance to flow, such that 3m is nowhere near enough.

If you think your system is balanced (have you had a look at the spreadsheet I attached yet?), then you may need to consider that during the initial force carbonation that you over carbed the beer. Did you sit it on your knee and shake the bejeesus out of it once you got it cold? Any of these "burst" processes are a bit hit and miss for a first time keggerator operator. The way to rectify this is to slowly decrease the CO2 content of the beer. Do this by disconnecting the CO2 from the keg, and purge from the relief valve on the top of the keg. Wait a few minutes (say 20 or 30) and repeat until you get almost no gas coming out of the relief valve (shaking the keg periodically will liberate more CO2 quicker, but will lift sediment etc), and then hook up the gas, set it to your preferred serving pressure (based on the balanced system calculations for your particular setup), and wait for it to gradually carb up. The set and forget way without shaking/agitating on a balanced system will get you there within 48 hrs or so.

Some people shake it a lot at high pressure (higher than serving) and then purge the headspace and then pour at a lower pressure, but I think this really is trying to compensate for lack of a balanced system. Keep at it, as it is well worth it once you have it balanced out, you can pour a perfect beer anytime. For my preferences, I would be shooting for around 2 volumes of CO2. I would normally have the temp around 6-8oC, which means I have my reg set at about 8 - 10psi. If you like your beer served at 3oC, then maybe set your reg for 5 - 6psi.

Another thing to try and work out if the beer is overcarbed is
1) - shutoff the CO2 from the reg to the keg, close the CO2 cylinder and purge the gas line (should be a safety valve on the reg)
2) - purge the headspace of the keg (open the relief valve and close it again once it has finished purging).
3) - reset the regulator such that no CO2 will flow once you open the system up (this should be done by backing out the screw on the regulator a couple of turns)
4) - open the CO2 cylinder (your reg should show the CO2 pressure)
5) - open the gas-line to the keg (the reg will probably register a small build-up in headspace pressure since purging it previously - this is the kegs pressure which should be close to zero). At this point you don't want any gas filling up the keg headspace again. If you hear it rushing in, shutoff the gas-line, back off on the regulator some more and purge the headspace again, then open the gas line agian.
6) - Now the system is all connected and once you increase the flow from the reg, you will start to put CO2 pressure into the keg.
7) - Open the tap on your keg (nothing should come out), and then gradually increase the gas from the regulator until you start to flow beer.

If you are only just managing to get a slow slow pour from your keg and it is still all foam, then you have overcarbed your beer.

If you are on 5mm ID line, and you think your system is balanced and you think the beer is not over carbed, then the only other thought I have is if the tap is way warmer than the beer, it may take some cold fluid going through the tap to cool it down, otherwise the sudden increase in temp when using it the first couple of pours may liberate a lot of CO2 causing a lot of foaming. I use a pluto gun, which sits in my fridge with my keg such that it is at the same temp as the beer I will pour, which avoids this problem. It means I have to open my fridge each time I want a beer, but it works for me.

Give me a shout if none of this makes sense.

Cheers
:beer:

Thanks once again for all the info.

I am using 5mm line

I didnt shake the crap out of the keg when I filled it, as soon as I sealed the keg i gave it a a few seconds of gass at about 15psi
then purged the keg to get any air out then I just sat the keg in the fridge for roughly 24 hrs to bring the temp down then I hooked up
the gass and set the reg at 15psi for 3 days before reducing the pressure to around 8psi after another purge.

I have had a look at the chart and at the temps I am running and the type of beer I have brewed I am operating at about the right
psi for the gass at 10psi now

Because of the way i went about it i wouldnt have thought that I over carbed the beer but I suppose anything is possible so maybe my
best course of action now is to try and determin whether or not it is overcarbed and move forward from there.

The consellation is that it doesnt taste bad, just has an enormous head.

Thanks once again.
i will keep you posted

Peter