How Much $ Is Too Much?

[microbe]

Hypothetical

This thread made me think about all the AHB members that (whenever financial questions) keep pushing the line that cost is nothing when you do AG, it's all about the 'romance' or 'process' or 'the joy of brewing'.

I'm a kit brewer and I know that not one of my 23L batches has cost me more than $34 ($1.20 per 750mL) and the long term average comes out at about $24 (80c per 750mL). I also know that I spend more per 23L batch than the most frugal of AGers out there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is not the way it should be, just wondering what people's limits are.

Just wondering how much the cost of a batch worth of raw ingredients would have to get to before it would make you question the worth of doing it. For the purpose of this exercise, assume that only grain hops and yeast are affected for the homebrewer only - for the big guys nothing changes - you can still buy VB for $40 a case and Duvel for $8 per bottle etc..


Cheers,

microbe

 

[lagers44]

Hi Microbe

I'm an AG brewer & have been for some time & yes I do it for the enjoyment ( I could easily brew daily if I was able to ). If I didn't brew then I couldn't afford to drink as my favourite beers are all imported & I don't enjoy commercial aussie beers.
I guess I would change my brewing methods when the costs exceeded the cost of a case of import. I probably wouldn't stop brewing , just do it less often or make lower gravity beers or choose a method that produced the flavours I like at a cheaper price like modified kits.

You don't stop cooking food at home because it's getting expensive to buy groceries , you adapt buy what you can & cook what you can.

Lagers

 

[SJW]

These 2 thread have got me thinking that it almost always is blokes who don't do All Grain that try to justify why they don't do it by bringing up the old dollar question. It would be like putting the question to Victor Bray as to why he spends so much money doing the form of racing he does when for much less he could race Go-karts.
I would say that 99.9% of AG brewers would keep brewing no matter what the cost. We would just brew smarter. I see no reason to spend thousands of dollars on setting up an all grain brewery if u want to save every cent making the beer. I dont care what they say but All Grain brewing CAN BE and most of the time is the more ROMANTIC/TOP SHELF way to brew. But many do do it on a shoestring.
Just do what makes u happy.

Steve

 

[joshuahardie]

I say most do it for the love of it, the love of a better beer and to hell with the dollar figure.

I have resigned myself to the fact that due to the amount of hours it takes to clean, mash, clean, ferment, watch temps, take readings, keg, bottle, etc etc, it is far far cheaper to just wander down the road and spend 50 bucks on a case.

But if that was the issue we would not be here.

I don't think I will ever stop brewing, but I might brew less if the cost of a single batch was more expensive that the cost of 2 cases of something drinkable, (coopers, squires etc)

As this is highly unlikely to ever happen, I don't think it will be an issue..

But i guess to answer your question, 80 bucks a batch would be the amount I would be strongly considering if it was worth it....

 

[bconnery]

I did get into this hobby because of cost.
I had lived in the UK for a few years and the cost of keeping myself in bitters and belgians would have been prohibitive...
That was then.
I still like good beer.
I won't spend $40 on VB, or 30, or 20 or....

While the price of many has come down good beer in this country is still expensive. Even the most crazyily expensive homebrew is still a mile cheaper.

That all being said Steve is right. I don't brew because it is cheaper any more. Not really. I still justify it that way sometimes. I also like the old one about how much cheaper this is than most other hobbies.
But it is not the primary reason.
I love the designing and creating of my beer.
The research, the execution, all of it.

Now a days I mostly buy commercial beer for two reasons. I like to try new beers, particularly to support the Australian microbrew industry. Sometimes I need to leave mine alone for a while to mature. Then I'll sometimes stock up for a bit. Overall though, I don't spend a lot of money in bottlestores any more...

 

[browndog]

I guess it is a bit like fishing, why spend $15000 on a boat and fishing gear, petrol etc etc when you can just go to the fish market and buy your fish. For me, and every other AG brewer (It guess) is that we enjoy the whole process of brewing. From designing a beer, crushing the grain and all the remaining processes up to the point of your first taste of your latest brew, that is what we as brewers enjoy. I started out brewing K&K to save money on beer, but when I witnessed my first brewing demo and tasted my first AG, I realised that this was something I really wanted to do and from there the cost factor went out the window.

cheers

Browndog

 

[kevnlis]

I just brewed a 13L Golden Strong Ale with 2 kilos of cherries in it. All total the brew cost me more than $65.

But will it be worth it? Judging by the taste I got from the fermentor when I bottled it? Mos Def!!!

 

[hughman666]

i got into brewing for cost reasons first up. saving for a house deposit, my wife and i looked at areas where we could save money and beer was the main one for me. i had brewed kits years before and, while not blown away with the quality, saw this as a viable option.

i mentioned to a workmate that i was going to get back into brewing and he put me onto AHB. within 3 months i had a keg setup, 2 months later i was doing extract brews and 1 month later i did my first BIAB. now i have a fairly traditional 3-tier setup and am just about to clock up year 2 of AG brewing.

did i save any money? hell no! we still managed to buy our house, but i decided after my first kit brew that i wasn't going to cut corners on this area (yep, it was fairly average). this is where the romance part kicked in. i became obsessed with customising my kits with every kind of steeping grain, hops, yeast etc. this led me onto the slippery slope into AG. to this day, i dont want to think about the cost of my setup, once you take into burners, chillers, fridgemates, gas refills, water filters, mash tuns/eskys etc and then the indirect costs such as buying a new fridge so that you can hijack the old one for fermentation.

the other side of the coin though (excuse the pun) is the sheer satisfaction of taking that first mouthful of a fresh hefeweizen on a hot day after mowing the lawn, or pouring a perfect pint from your own keg for a mate to take a sip of and be genuinely surprised how good it tastes.

all this, knowing that you have engineered every aspect of that beer, from crushing the grain, through to carbing up the keg.

i estimate a batch of beer would cost me between $17-$25 but i would still do this if it cost twice that, or more :icon_cheers:

 

[BusinessTime]

I'm still on my way to putting together my ideal AG setup but generally I brew with mates because it's a fun thing to do and at the end of it you get beer that is hopefully better than most stuff on the shelves at your local bottle-shop.

For me it's a hobby so I don't worry too much about the cost as I'm doing it for the enjoyment I get from the act.

Cost Wise per 22L batch it costs around $20-$25

 

[SJW]

I have a mate who races Formula Fords and it's nothing for him to go and spen $1000 on a part for his carby. So I would say it is a cheap hobby.

 

[jbirbeck]

I brew because I love it...I do AG half batches because I wanted to go AG but didn't have larger pots etc lying around. I don't buy bulk but tend to buy mutiple recipes in one go and get them delivered.

I think it generally costs me around the $1-$2 a litre mark depending on the brew because i reuse the yeasts so many times the cost virtually disappears and I have my burner hooked up to mainline natural gas. the simple stouts are one of the cheaper ones, along with simple pils

when I went from kit to grain it wasn't for cost but for taste and I'd not go back regardless of increasing costs. ust organise purchases differently.

 

[PartyPooper]

I'm a kit brewer that started back in the late 80's doing bottles like everyone else (I have since moved on to kegging). Initially it was just an experimentation thing for me and then it became a monetary thing but over the years kits have become much more palatable than commercial beers and now I do it for the taste (and savings ). If I put the two side by side (kit and commercial), I can't believe how "watery" the commercial beers taste in comparison.

That said, I don't brew the full 23L - I normally only fill the fermenter up to the 20L mark (and keg about 19L) so I guess it costs me slightly more than the average homebrewer. I tend to bulk buy so at a guess my costs go something like this:

Kit : $15
Additives: $8
Gas: $2
Cleaning/Misc: $3

Total: $30 approx

Now, in rough figures, let's assume I waste a bit and only get to drink about 18L. This means I get at least 48 x 375ml stubbies out of a keg (ie. 2 slabs) which ends up costing me less than $0.65 per stubby. Considering that the cheapest I can get a slab of stubbies in my local area is around the $32 mark (about $1.33 per stubby), I'm coming out way ahead in terms of cost and taste (double in fact).

So for me at least, I'm currently happy with my expenditure.

 

[schooey]

Pick a hobby any hobby, chances are if it's anything half blokey or half interesting, it's going to cost you something (apologies to all the trainspotters: your hobby is neither blokey or interesting )

I decided to collect all the things to build the all out PID controlled rig with the HERMS system and a pump yatter yatter, because I'm an engineer and that shit makes me tick. Granted, I scrimmaged and scrounged and found the stuff on ebay, liberated some from friends junk and other places and some of it i just had to buy new. All up it's probably cost me over $1500 to get it all together over a six month period, or roughly $60/week. Cheaper than the payments on a boat, punting at the track every saturday etc etc.

When I'm finished, I'll be able to say I built that, it works and it makes bloody great beer! Even if I did steal a fair few design ideas from others...

When it comes to the crunch, we do what makes us happy with our time and money. I know there are a lot of guys out there making fantastic beer on a budget, and good luck to them, as long as they are happy with what they are doing and happy to be in the hobby. I just don't see the point of not being happy with your beer, or not being happy how you make it for the sake of saving a few dollars.

 

[matti]

I brew when time allows for it, which is less seldom these days as I have a growing family.
It all come down to simple maths.
Like most brewers, I like having a drink and brew because it is cheaper then buying quality beers.
I have probably blown my budget for so to speak in acquiring AG equipment.
But saying that, it will last me 30 years + if looked after.

If the beer start to cost more then buying commercial beer that I enjoy, then you basically got to ask you the question.

How much better is the brew you make then that you can buy?
Or.
Does the pleasure of making it from scratch give you that much enjoyment it is worth every cent?


My answers would be

I make it cheaper then commercial beer and it taste equally good or better when I get it right.

To the enjoyment part of it: I learn with every brew and I put down and have more control of the final outcome.

matti

 

[KGB]

Some good points made in this thread so far, including:

I have resigned myself to the fact that due to the amount of hours it takes to clean, mash, clean, ferment, watch temps, take readings, keg, bottle, etc etc, it is far far cheaper to just wander down the road and spend 50 bucks on a case.

But if that was the issue we would not be here.

Agreed.

I guess it is a bit like fishing, why spend $15000 on a boat and fishing gear, petrol etc etc when you can just go to the fish market and buy your fish.

Browndog

Good analogy.

fwiw, I'm a kit brewer and my brews are usually between $20 and $30 for ingredients.

 

[snagler]

Im up to my 20th AG and with each AG beer I make I find myself saying "my god thats the best beer I have ever tasted"

Cost.....who cares about cost, I have done my nuts and am in love :icon_drool2:

 

[boingk]

I think the most I've ever spent on a 23L batch was $42 [$1.83], on a Chilli-Vanilla Lager...most of the extra dosh going towards a few vanilla beans and the jalapenos. Cheapest is $15 [50c/longie], either a few generics on special made into a toucan, or a Coopers Original series plus a Brew Enhancer Two [Regular QCN - Quick Cheap & Nasty, although it still goes better than commercial beer].

 

[Dave86]

I would find it hard to justify doing a lot of brews if coopers or squires (or something better) was equal in price to my beers, but there would always be the beers that are hard to find, or experimental ones to try that would have me coming back to brewing my own. Nearly all available beers are brewed with the market in mind (to different extents) where as homebrew allows us to try all sorts of weird shit! My cheapest beer was a tasty summer ale at about $0.71/L and the most expensive beer I've brewed was $70 for a 12.5 litre batch, which I began to have second thoughts about, but then again, where do you find imperial oatmeal stout for $60 bucks a case???

 

[SJW]

I think I paid near $80 for half a case of Fullers Double Choc Stout. Worth every cent too.

 

[brendanos]

I've done all grain batches (20ish L's) that have cost me under $5 in ingredients, and ones that have cost over $100. Ultimately, cost is irrelevant for me (so long as I'm not broke), as I brew for the love of it.