How many brewers Sparge until run off is 1.010?

[Danscraftbeer]

I'm a newbie at All Grain but have made a few and proving (to me) to be my best beers.
Mash in an esky. I sparge a lot, like (5kg grain, ~6lt sparge water each time) and turn over grain each time. 4 sparges would be usuall. Vorlauf well each time.
At the aim of efficiency. Getting a higher Pre boil volume.
Rarely I get sparge run off down to1.010. Only my dryest of beers that use less grain bill and start around 1.040 and finish as low as 1.002.

Question 2! Flavor?
I thought there were suposed to be bad flavors like tanins or whatever from too much extraction out of the husks from too much sparging. Either I like these flavors or I cant detect them or they aren't there? :chug:

 

[manticle]

1010 is the lower limit. If you get the volume and gravity you want before that and are not brewing commercially don't worry about it.

 

[mb-squared]

I think it depends in large part on the pH. If it is low, then you won't be extracting tannins (from my understanding). I (fly) sparge until my boil kettle is full. I used to monitor the gravity as I went, and found that it got pretty low at times (1.008 or even a shade lower), but the beer always tasted great and so the only thing I bother to monitor anymore is the pH of the mash and the sparge water. I let Beersmith take care of the other numbers for me (at recipe design stage). Not very "professional" of me I suppose, but sure makes brew day a hell of a lot more relaxing.

 

[antiphile]

manticle, again, seems to have grabbed it by the short & curlies. From my experience, you'll have a larger problem with tannin extraction if you allow the mash to get too high in pH when sparging. I have to keep an eye on it since my tap water is usually pH 8.2 or even higher.

Secondly, I think the lowest SG of the very last runnings has been 1.014, but more usually between 1.017 and 1.022.

Oops. MB squared beat me.

 

[manticle]

pH is a very important factor in tannin extraction yes. pH, gravity, temperature, crush - no one single factor so consider 1.010 a guide.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yeah I'm pretty relaxed with my home brewing and not worrying about efficiency much either.
About equal to 7 bucks a slab for ingredients and the joy of doing it.
So its more a commercial concern but then again its also an understanding of the commercial style too.
I've done the contrary too and sparged as to Beersmiths recomendations. The final run off was 1.038.
This brew night was suspended!: I left the pre boil wort in keggle overnight on low heat.
Continued and finished the brewing the next day and ended up with a surprisingly high OG.!

Either I added an extra 1kg scoop of grain by mistake (Unlikely) Or leaving the pre boil wort at around 80 -88c all night actually converted more into sugar?

Just pondering on some mysteries I've observed doing this science stuff.
I know I cant be the only novice brewer that come across mysterious results. B)

 

[verysupple]

Mash in an esky. I sparge a lot, like (5kg grain, ~6lt sparge water each time) and turn over grain each time. 4 sparges would be usuall. Vorlauf well each time.

It kind of sounds lilke you're doing multiple batch sparges.

Is there any reason why you're doing four sparges? I could maybe understand if your mash tun had very limited capacity...but then you'd be mashing really thick too.
If you are batch sparging, then doing one sparge where you get ~50 % of your runnings (the other 50 % from the mash) is usually sufficient. I do this and get plenty good enough efficiency.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

It kind of sounds lilke you're doing multiple batch sparges.

Is there any reason why you're doing four sparges? I could maybe understand if your mash tun had very limited capacity...but then you'd be mashing really thick too.
If you are batch sparging, then doing one sparge where you get ~50 % of your runnings (the other 50 % from the mash) is usually sufficient. I do this and get plenty good enough efficiency.

What is your final run off out of curiosity?
I've done the other experiments of less/ and larger sparges. Its all about the rinsing of the grain. Esky has corners and whatever Tun you have. Turning over the grain and rinsing gets the most yeah?
I've just found smaller separate sparges get better efficiency. A lower final run off than 1 or 2 larger sparges.
Still experimenting on every brew here. B)

 

[manticle]

Well you might get the sugar rinsed off but you're adding more water to do so, requiring longer boiloff to get gravity/volume you're chasing.
Balance processes to get results you want.

 

[manticle]

Gravity of runoff is an indicator to stop when fly/continuous sparging.
Sounds like you're focussing too much on numbers rather than the principles they represent. You can't drink a pie chart.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It kind of sounds lilke you're doing multiple batch sparges.

Is there any reason why you're doing four sparges? I could maybe understand if your mash tun had very limited capacity...but then you'd be mashing really thick too.
If you are batch sparging, then doing one sparge where you get ~50 % of your runnings (the other 50 % from the mash) is usually sufficient. I do this and get plenty good enough efficiency.

I usually do 3-4 batch sparges to get kettle

The final sparge is pretty weak, but is good for starters and yeast storage

 

[Fat Bastard]

I fly sparge, and I always measure the gravity of the last runnings along with the pH. I have no idea why I continue to do so as I only rarely go anywhere near the limits (1.010/6.0pH) other than it gives me some sense of comfort to be measuring something using the expensive instruments that I paid for with the sweat of my brow.

I stop sparging when I've put in enough sparge water to hit my pre boil volume, determined by experience. Anything left in the mash tun goes into the compost with the spent grain.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

other than it gives me some sense of comfort to be measuring something using the expensive instruments that I paid for with the sweat of my brow.

Funny how that works..... :lol:

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Thanks for sharing brewers.
I cant waste that stuff. My own designed extracted malt. Get as much as you can for beer and there is still more left.
If I had room enough for chooks they would be fat and healthy.
Sometimes I do (after) sparges and use that nutrient sugar water for compost tea, for the garden.
A douse of spent grain for the compost and worm farm and toss the rest over the lawn, and have the best looking Doves as residents. B)

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

. Vorlauf well each time.

Thank god there is a word for the following.....

Grab piece of foil ( large squashed apple pie tin is the ducks for this...but a custard tart tin will also work well )

Place pie/custard **** tart tin on top of mash

Draw off 1-2 litres into a jug

Then gently pour onto pie/tart tin

Draw off 1-2 litres into a jug

Then gently ( like a bentley ) pour onto pie tin thingy

Repeat

When wort runs clear drain into kettle

Fill mash tun with sparge water...

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Its not the most exciting process, but the rewards are well worth it if you get it right

 

[verysupple]

What is your final run off out of curiosity?
I've done the other experiments of less/ and larger sparges. Its all about the rinsing of the grain. Esky has corners and whatever Tun you have. Turning over the grain and rinsing gets the most yeah?
I've just found smaller separate sparges get better efficiency. A lower final run off than 1 or 2 larger sparges.
Still experimenting on every brew here. B)

I usually get 10 - 11 L from the first runnings and 12 - 13 L of about 1.030 from the second runnings. There's no reason you shouldn't be doing multiple sparges, I was just curious what your reasoning was. I'm lazy, so one is enough and I usually get ~78 % into the kettle which I'm happy with. When I get my new rig I'll be moving to no sparge and take a minor efficiency hit (I've calculated 70 - 75 % for a 25 L 1.050 batch).

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

t . I'm lazy, so one is enough and I usually get ~78 % into the kettle which I'm happy with. When I get my new rig I'll be moving to no sparge and take a minor efficiency hit (I've calculated 70 - 75 % for a 25 L 1.050 batch).

So you only do 1 batch sparge.......

 

[Danscraftbeer]

cool, thanks.
Its what I am finding too.
The only reason I sparge moor is to extract more then to boil down more to get the efficiencies that I aim for..bla bla..
but I have to check this is not just wasted effort, because, I have been lazy with 2 sparges and got good results too!? :huh:
It doesn't make sense some times. I have to, check results.
All in all its the best beer I've ever made and getting better.