How do you use your Counter Flow Chiller (CFC) ?

[technobabble66]

@Matt - totally agree w Pratty.
CFCs depend entirely on the chilling medium that absorbs the heat. As your target temp approaches the temp of the chilling medium (ie: tap water) the efficiency (read: speed or final temp) of the CFC drops away dramatically. So a large increase in time or volume doesn't make a big difference; whereas dropping the temp of the chilling medium away from the target temp regains a large amount of efficiency. Hence you can easily drop your target temp further or increase your flow rate. Or both if you drop the temp of the chilling medium enough.

Fwiw, the system I choose to run is:
Run starsan thru the pump and CFC in the late stages of the boil (the acid is good to remove any copper oxide residue in the CFC).
Gravity drain most of the starsan.
Recirculate wort thru the CFC back into the kettle at flameout. This drops the temp in the kettle to below 80*C within 5 mins. Another 5-10 mins drops it below 66*C - whirlpool hops go in now and pump/CFC turned off. Steeps for ~20-30mins. Whirlpool in the last 10-15mins.
Turn pump and CFC water back on and kettle is drained into FV.

I do it like that to get a rapid halt to bittering - to hopefully get more reproducible recipes.
The drop to 66-ish is to drop below to volitization point of most of the hops oils. Great theory but I'm not sure if I'm losing out in other chemical reactions. So far so good.
Temp into FV is around 21*C in January. If I need lower I commonly need to dilute out to hit target OG, so I just add a few litres of tap water (K&K's do it so why can't I?!). Generally will get it to 17-18*C fairly easily.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Recirculate wort thru the CFC back into the kettle at flameout. This drops the temp in the kettle to below 80*C within 5 mins. Another 5-10 mins drops it below 66*C - whirlpool hops go in now and pump/CFC turned off. Steeps for ~20-30mins. Whirlpool in the last 10-15mins.

Hi techno,

I have considered trying that method to lower the temp before adding WP hops as Im currently adding them right after the boil has finished and the wort is whirpooling and leaving the lid on for about 10mins.

I have read that the lower temps hold more of teh volitile/essential oils, my question is have you tried a particular recipe with WP additions and different temps to see how much more hop flavour and aroma you get from the lower v's the higher temp?

 

[technobabble66]

Hi techno,

I have considered trying that method to lower the temp before adding WP hops as Im currently adding them right after the boil has finished and the wort is whirpooling and leaving the lid on for about 10mins.

I have read that the lower temps hold more of teh volitile/essential oils, my question is have you tried a particular recipe with WP additions and different temps to see how much more hop flavour and aroma you get from the lower v's the higher temp?

Short answer: nope, not yet. I just don't brew frequently enough to run replicated recipes. I'm still getting other basic elements correct in my recipes (eg: be careful with Nelson ...). However, once I've got those elements sorted I should be able to replicate the overall process every time.
It *does* mean I can stack 20min flavour additions without needing to make an IPA every batch though; which is v handy for some/most of the styles I try. I have the tragic preference for lots of hops flavour and aroma, but not too many IBUs.

I think I need to find some more literature on the chemical reactions the hops oils go through as to whether the high temperatures are needed to utilize them properly or if my process can maximize their capture (maybe with a longer steep...).

 

[MattSR]

Just been thinking over this one a bit more - the pre-chilling idea looks to be great and very effective, but I have also been toying with the idea of recirculating the wort back into the fermenter during the whirlpooling stage..

For example, at flameout, I start the pump, and feed the wort from the Braumeister, into the pump, then from the pump into the CFC, and from the CFC back into the vessel. Once a whirlpool is established, then I start running the cooling water through the CFC and watch the temp drop. Once the wort temp in the vessel is down to 20-30 degrees or whatever, I then stop the pump, remove the whirlpool hose, and transfer to the FV..

Does this sound ok to you guys?

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Dan Pratt]

Just been thinking over this one a bit more - the pre-chilling idea looks to be great and very effective, but I have also been toying with the idea of recirculating the wort back into the fermenter during the whirlpooling stage..

For example, at flameout, I start the pump, and feed the wort from the Braumeister, into the pump, then from the pump into the CFC, and from the CFC back into the vessel. Once a whirlpool is established, then I start running the cooling water through the CFC and watch the temp drop. Once the wort temp in the vessel is down to 20-30 degrees or whatever, I then stop the pump, remove the whirlpool hose, and transfer to the FV..

Does this sound ok to you guys?

Cheers,
Matt

Hi Matt,

That sounds fine to me.

If your going that way, when the heat gets to below 80c, add 2g/L of hops and while it continues to cool the oils from the hops will be adding to aroma compunds in the beer.

One thing I would suggest though is that when you reach your 20-30c, close the valves, prepare the hose into the FV and allow the whirpool out for about 10mins, this will drop out all the flaoting trub before the transfer, provided you used whirfloc or your wheat content is low.

Dan

 

[MattSR]

Awesome, thanks Pratty, I'm starting to get a handle on this whole AG brewing thing I feel..

I must say, I'm loving the Braumeister too, it is a fantastic bit of gear - and with the pump and CFC it is just awesome.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[dave81]

Hi Matt,

That sounds fine to me.

If your going that way, when the heat gets to below 80c, add 2g/L of hops and while it continues to cool the oils from the hops will be adding to aroma compunds in the beer.

One thing I would suggest though is that when you reach your 20-30c, close the valves, prepare the hose into the FV and allow the whirpool out for about 10mins, this will drop out all the flaoting trub before the transfer, provided you used whirfloc or your wheat content is low.

Dan

Thats how I use my cfc also but I dont add the whirlpool hops until I hit 60.c for less chance of boiling the hop oils away
I dont have a pre chiller yet but I struggle to get below 32-34.c Into the fermentor unless I take an hour to transfer so a pre chiller should sort that out

 

[MattSR]

What's the best way to go about making a pre-chiller? I notice that Keg King has SS coils available, so I guess its just a matter of getting some fittings and an esky and plumbing it all up....

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Dan Pratt]

^

Id go with one of these chiller plates, add water to cover the plate and fill with ice....should ge that water passing through at 5-10c





or use a plate chiller and double loop it using the entire surface area's,

 

[MattSR]

a bloke I know is a plumber by trade and when he replaced our HWS I asked if he could bend some copper tube for the whirlpool. I added a camlock fitting to it and it sits about 2 inches below the wort level after the boil.

1/2 inch copper pipe and camlock

WP_20141028_002.jpg

on the BM

WP_20141028_003.jpg

Hi Pratty1,

I love that setup, do you mind if I copy it? :chug: :chug:Also - did you use a compression fitting to attach the camlock to the pipe or something else?

With the first chiller in the post above, do you know where I can source one of those? it looks great and is probably easier to hook up than a bunch of stainless or copper tubing in an easy..

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi Pratty1,

I love that setup, do you mind if I copy it? :chug: :chug:Also - did you use a compression fitting to attach the camlock to the pipe or something else?

With the first chiller in the post above, do you know where I can source one of those? it looks great and is probably easier to hook up than a bunch of stainless or copper tubing in an easy..

Cheers,
Matt

Hi,

By all means, make yourself a wort return pipe, it used a compression fitting with a male threaded cam lock into that.

The first chiller can be sourced from Andale, think they are around $125 retail but keep an eye out online for them they can pop up now and again.

Dan

 

[takai]

How did you get the return pipe to sit at the angle that it does? Just gravity or does the rigidity of the hose help?